Too many females?

Discussion in 'Character Development' started by Lightning, Apr 9, 2012.

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  1. superpsycho

    superpsycho New Member

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    Women deal with personal monthly issues, mood swings, child birth, they consider health care and others aspects of life, but none of that increases the complexity of their thinking or it's range. Right, Like I believe that.
     
  2. VM80

    VM80 Contributor Contributor

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    I think the writer gets to decide at what that particular character would do. It goes beyond gender lines etc etc.

    We're all individuals, but I'd like to think people can relate to others and find, actually, there can be a lot of common ground too.
     
  3. Protar

    Protar Active Member

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    Yes women do have those things to deal with. But they don't make a woman's inner workings any more complex, there's just more things to think about. Quantity does not equal complexity. Not to mention the faction that things like periods, are to do with their physical biology, not the neurobiology. And most of those things you listed men can think about as well. I have mood swings, I'm a guy. Men can care about health care, and they can care about childbirth as well. The fact that it doesn't happen to them is empathy, a layer of complexity wouldn't you know. And pray tell what are these other aspects of life that men are incapable of thinking about?
     
  4. superpsycho

    superpsycho New Member

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    If you add more neuro and synaptic pathways you're going to increase brain complexity which is what we've been discussing. They have to deal with more, worry about more and think about more things then men do. It gives a writer a greater range in developing a character because there are more things you can have them deal with and think about. More worries and more to deal with means a more complex character. It shouldn't be difficult to understand.

    Doesn't mean you have to develop it all but it's there if you need it and if the story needs it.
     
  5. The Tourist

    The Tourist Banned

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    But there's no excuse to beat up on the boy and then parse everything he both says and never implied. It's a cheap shot.

    If we are to discuss issues with plot points, you're going to have to accept the things you don't like along with the things that stroke your ego.

    Frankly the advice from people who shout, "Me too, me too!" is almost worthless. The carefully constructed rebuttal and some sincere advice is going to do you more good.

    If your book has a flaw, and you want advice to make it better, why discount his point of view?
     
  6. VM80

    VM80 Contributor Contributor

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    I'm not sure who this 'they' is. Not all women worry about these things. Or, as has been mentioned, all kinds of people can have mood swings or think about health care (?), worry about all sorts of aspects of life etc.

    Not all women have children. Am I less complex because I don't or may choose not to?
     
  7. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I'm bi-polar. Does that mean I'm going to be more aware of healthcare ... wha?
     
  8. superpsycho

    superpsycho New Member

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    As an individual you could be absolutely unique. We talk in terms of generality because we can not know each individual, only what statistics tell us is the norm or/and what our individual range of experience tells us. You as an individual are a mystery. I wouldn't even consider attempting to make judgements on individuals without knowing them very well and even then I'm more likely to just ask your own opinion of yourself.
     
  9. The Tourist

    The Tourist Banned

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    Again, nobody said that. Even if someone said "they have a propensity" that still doesn't infer 'all women.'

    I'm sure you've seen bikers. I'm sure by now you think all bikers have tattoos. Well, I've been a biker for 40 years, a member of a bike club, and the current owner of two Harleys, and I don't have a single tattoo.

    However, if someone started a thread about our culture for a story, and asked, "Why do all bikers have tattoos?" would you find it acceptable for me to respond to every one of his posts demanding, "You're wrong! You're wrong! You're belittling the culture!"

    Superpsycho stated some information that applies in many cases. Even my dogs--brother and sister from the same litter--have distinct male and female tendencies. And you'd only have to spend about five minutes with them to tell which is which without flipping them over.

    Before we can discuss any plot points from here on out, should I make my signature a legal disclaimer?
     
  10. Pea

    Pea super pea!

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    That's not what you said before. The argument I'm making is that I don't understand why you'd need to ask your wife/female friend/etc what their motivations would be for raping someone. Would it be any more insightful than asking someone male? Unless you're actually going to prisons and asking convicted rapists their motivations it would be the same. Your argument about being shot also doesn't work. It's like saying because men are more likely to be shot you could ask a man about being shot, who hasn't, and they'd give a more correct opinion about it than a female that hasn't been shot.

    Maybe I am missing something here, but it doesn't make sense to me.
     
  11. The Tourist

    The Tourist Banned

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    No, but I'd ask my wife to tell me in detail how'd she feel after being raped.

    For example, if you were writing a story about "male displeasure" you could contact me about how I might feel in having to type everything five times. Or watching Superpsycho get shellacked for trying to help.

    I'm an expert there.
     
  12. superpsycho

    superpsycho New Member

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    There are books from rapist that might be insightful as to male motivation. We were discussing differences between men and women I was asked would I include rape since a good percentage of men do those things. I said if the story called for it yes. Then not to appear sexist I stated I wouldn't know how or why a women would commit such an act. Since I don't know of any data that exists on the subject or books I'd have to ask women, would they and why.
     
  13. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    Or you could do the research on male rape and find out that the feelings/motivations/reactions are not all that different on either side. And that would probably be more enlightening than asking "women" who may or may not have any thoughts/experience on the subject and who may or may not be able to give you any worthwhile information.

    The problem is that on the one hand, you're saying that we need to look at individuals - which is what people can agree on. But then you turn around and make statements about men and women as groups, as if they all acted/reacted the same way because of biology. Maybe it's semantics, but really, you can't have it both ways. What your wife/girlfriend/female friends may do or think is what they do or think - you cannot impose those actions/thoughts on women in general, or use them as "proof" that women in general do indeed act or think in those ways.
     
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  14. The Tourist

    The Tourist Banned

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    Shadowwalker, I respect your opinions and always read your posts. However, elements of this discussion now also apply to you. (Assuming your avatar means you're a woman.)

    "wife/girlfriend/female friends may do or think is what they do or think."

    I cannot take your comments now as a defense of women as you are a woman, hence what you think is not fully reperesentative of that gender. You cannot have it both ways, either.
     
  15. superpsycho

    superpsycho New Member

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    You can't make a character all things to all people. You start with a template of the norm or a range there of. Then you build from there letting the story shape the character. Most women deal with more things then men do. That fact allows a greater range that can be developed.

    I don't ask the question to establish some proof. I'm only trying to get a level of understanding i can work with. The more people I talk to the more information I have to develop some a starting point based on of all things, real people. I'm not imposing actions on anyone. Why would I try to impose anything on any real world women? I have absolutely no desire to do so even if I was in a position to do so. I'm trying to develop characters based on some semblance of reality and why some people think that is offensive is beyond me.
     
  16. Pea

    Pea super pea!

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    Yeah, and any number of people could ask how their father would feel after being raped. The gender of the person doesn't have any bearing on the conversation. The issue could be exchanged with any number of ones.
     
  17. The Tourist

    The Tourist Banned

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    That's what we're saying. Comments here seem to be misinterpretted as "all women, all of the time, every time, in all time zones."

    Parse it all your want. No one said that.
     
  18. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Are you serious?

    This topic is becoming more and more absurd, and it's intellectual value disappeared many posts ago.
     
  19. Pea

    Pea super pea!

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    Uh oh. :)
     
  20. The Tourist

    The Tourist Banned

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    This was a sincere attempt to show just how ridiculous this thread has become.

    The OP's opening statement, Superpsycho's response and my displeasure are of equal value in both the context and for the purposes of rebuttal.

    Our gender has no bearing, either. We make personal observations and we do research, period.

    No one said "Speaking for all men, this is what we think of all women."

    The guys wanted to help, gather info for a story, and try to unsnarl the meaningless interjections that did not help the OP. Ya' know, after cutting through this gibberish the OP might decide to write a pamphlet on garden tractors. And I wouldn't blame him.
     
  21. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    I don't recall ever saying that what I think is representative of all women.
     
  22. The Tourist

    The Tourist Banned

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    And that's my point. I don't speak for men on the subject of women. I do have a singular opinion on women, however. Not the same thing.
     
  23. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    As I stated, it's when you take what *some* women say/think/do and extrapolate that to be representative of women in general that people get hot under the collar. And you have done that repeatedly throughout this thread.
     
  24. superpsycho

    superpsycho New Member

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    No, not represent women. I said if I take my experience and add it to the data I have what could be considered a norm or base line, Statistics never directly represent the subjects, they can't. They can only represent a point of reference.
     
  25. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    This thread has actually reached cacian levels. I think it's time to call it quits.
     
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