"Turn of phrases"

Hi everyone!

I am looking for people that can help me on something. Before I can post my fanfic I would like to know if any of you will be able to help me find "turn of phrases" in my story, please? Any help is very appreciated.

 

Can you clarify? Your subject says "turn off" and your post says "turn of", which have quite different meanings, and I'm unclear on what either meaning signifies in this context.

 

I'm assuming you mean 'turn of phrase' as in cliché? Something that's been said before, maybe too many times?

First of all, if that's the case, your best option is to look for these yourself. I don't think there is an autocorrect function for clichés! (Maybe there should be?) I suspect you know you're using them, otherwise you wouldn't be worried about them. So do your best to find them on your own. If you do find them, figure out a better way to 'say' that particular idea. Big as a house, could be changed to either 'big' as something else, or you could find another way to convey the idea of bigness, for example.

Here's a link to an article you might find useful: http://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-cliches.html

Once you've gone through, identified all the clichés you can spot, and eliminated them, then give your piece to somebody else to read. Give them the specific instruction to please mark any instances of cliché that pop out at them. Then repeat the process you used for yourself to eliminate these as well.

It's good that you recognise this might be a problem. It will probably make your future writing stronger, in that you'll be less likely to just grab a slang phrase or the easy comparison again.

.................

If you did mean 'turn-off' phrases, meaning phrases people will object to, then I'm afraid you're on your own! We've all got pet peeve phrases that we dislike. In fact, I think there's a thread here on the forum about this kind of thing. My pet peeve is the use of the word 'awesome' to mean anything that's not knee-tremblingly stunning or awe-inspiring. As in a roaring tornado, The Grand Canyon, or The Miracle of The Loaves and Fishes. Awesome to describe a tasty piece of pie or a classy pair of shoes seems like overkill to me. But hey—that's me.

 

Check out my link in my previous post. It might be just what you're looking for.

 

Every time Nora Roberts says, "took her mouth."

 

I do apologize it is indeed turn of phrases

Yes, it is the turn of phrases, but what I am looking for is when someone reads may be lost on the logic. I confess I have some difficulty to link stuff on my story. And thanks for sharing the link, I will check it

 

I'm wondering if you are a native English speaker? If not, you might have difficulty finding awkward turn of phrases on your own. If that's the case, then you probably need somebody who is a native speaker to give you some feedback.

After you have fulfilled the requirements for posting your work in the Workshop, I would advise that you do so. There are lots of pairs of eyes on this forum that would be willing to take a look. Just explain, at the start of your post, that you are looking for feedback about meaning, and I'm sure you will get some answers. Good luck, and welcome to the forum, by the way!

 

I had a pal who used to write:

She was beautiful like a prism's light cascading blah..and walked the path like a road of infinite possib..lah...toward a house that was like two levels impossibly balanced upon bricks and...

But he could never see it, and used to take great offence.

I appreciate I might be veering away from cliche. I try to remove 'like' if possible, and jam in the allusion anyways...see if that is 'do-able.' His similes were brilliant, line after line with a running jump toward each one.

 

Love it.

 

Thanks for the advice One last thing, for me to ask help do I keep posting on this section? Or do I need to ask on another post? If so, which one? Or can I ask help on this same one as we speak?

Many thanks for welcoming on this forum, and I look forward to see that eyes

 

It depends on how you ask. Our forum has an underlying idea of reciprocation. In order to get help from others, you need to be willing to give help in kind. If you're going to present your story for general consideration, then it goes in the Writing Workshop, which is further down the home page of the forum, and you have to give critiques in that area before you can use it to get critiques. It's always a 2-for-1 deal in that area. If you need help with just a phrase or a sentence here and there, you can keep using this thread. But please remember the spirit of reciprocation. If I see that you're piecemealing your story, sentence by sentence, circumventing the requirements for the Writing Workshop, you can expect that I will intervene.

Remember also that we're a workshopping forum, not an archive forum. The members here understand that stories or portions of stories posted in the Writing Workshop for consideration are works in progress, things we want help with, not really in their finished form quite yet. This is different to archive forums where a posted item is typically seen as a finished product.

 

Thanks for the explanation. I will ask just in case I understood to not make mistakes in the future. So basically I will have to participate, and here I mean critique as well, in the fanfiction post so I can post mine when the time comes?

 

You can give critiques in any area of the Writing Workshop that you like. It all counts the same. So - just as a random example - if I give critique to a poem and to a short story, that's two critiques. I can now post a piece of my novel in the novels section.

It's always a 2-for-1. Some people misunderstand and post only two critiques and then try to flood the Workshop with every story they have in their hard drive. That's not how it works. It's 2-for-1. If I have 3 different things I want critique on, I need to give 6 critiques in total.

Also, something that sometimes happens is the following:

Person - "No one is giving me good critiques that say anything of meaning or worth!"

Me - "Have you given good critiques to other stories in the Workshop?"

Person - "Yes.... I think they're good critiques I've given..."

*I go look for the critiques and all I find are one-liners like "This was great, keep writing!" or "Wow! Good job! Keep Writing!"*

Me - "I found your critiques, and they really didn't say anything, just some empty platitudes."

Person - "Yeah, but they were positive, so now I want people to give me in-depth, professorial, hard-core help!"​

See how that doesn't balance out?

No one expects you to use fancy terms or words. But they do expect you to give the same level of help you yourself hope to receive. The easiest way to think about it is that this is a community of people with a similar interest. It's not a service.

 

Thanks for the explanation and also your patience . I look forward to helping others as well.

 

Well, assuming you already know what turn-of-phrases to look for, you could try ctrl+f. But this is likely to be of limited use to you, considering there's probably thousands of turn-of-phrases / cliches.

Also know that it isn't automatically bad or wrong to use a turn-of-phrase / cliche. It's all about how. Don't go hitting every nail with a high-heel shoe because you're bent on being nonconformist. Just like we have hammers for a reason, turn-of-phrases and cliches are tools. Perhaps ones that shouldn't be used as often as a hammer, but language tools nevertheless.

 

I agree. Something else to consider is the voice of the narrator. Authors often purposefully repeat cliches and verbal tics throughout the narration to give the text itself a specific character. Obviously, this is doubly true in dialogue. Everyone has speech habits and favorite expressions. They wouldn't be cliches if we didn't hear them all the time.

 

By the way, I kind of love this, because as an American who was a teenager in the 90's, I use it all the time. It was our "cool", "right on" "smashing", etc., and so very many of us never dropped it. There's a great episode of "Supernatural" in which Dean Winchester, who uses the word "awesome" a dozen times an episode, time-travels to the old west, and everyone keeps confusing his mild enthusiasm (and often sarcasm) for expressions of divine inspiration. It's awesome!

 

That gave me my laugh of the day! (Mind you, the day is young....)

 

Hello guys, how are you doing?

I seek feedback on a sentence in my fanfiction, for turn of phrases, to improve on my writing. Many thanks.

Heavy sounds of blades clashing on another outside of the window, reminds the young warrior the responsibility at his hands. Training his crew for the discipline every demacian has to become, a guardian for crown and flag. Opening his eyes, Taric looks to his heavy white armour, shining as a sign of hope for the citizens. The shield and hammer, his knowledge of principles on battle, which for him was never a problem, since always came naturally.

 

Ahaa! Now I remember this situation. I fear I have been catalyst to grave misunderstanding, LoaDyron.

I believe we had a conversation about writing in English as a way to learn English. I recall stating that a "turn of phrase" in Portuguese would not come across in direct English translation. I suggested that you get help from an (English-ish) writer fully fluent in Portuguese to work your Portuguese sentences into understandable English. I regret if I led you to believe that someone here would divine the Portuguese meaning behind your (English) words, and back-translate, rearrange, and re-formulate them. I honestly don't know if that can be done.
Have you already written your story in Portuguese, or are you starting from a blank page and trying to create in English? The latter would seem to require the full time effort of two people.
I appologize for any confusion.

 

Thank you very much for your patience and time.

I never start writing my story in Portuguese, more likely the last one, a blank page to create in English. It's alright. It's more the way that I had interpreted your conversation than your words. So what you are suggesting is for me to write first in Portuguese, and then try to translate in English?

 

Yes. Native language first. Then work with Portuguese-English expert who can help you convey mood and thought to readable English. You can still discuss outlines, characters, plot, etc in the appropriate places. It will take time, but you need a level of English that reads smoothly. People process spoken languages differently, dynamically, and so the flow can be interrupted by questions of "what are you trying to say". Not so with literature. It must process smoothly, without interruption, so the focus can remain on the story. I only speak English, and still I have to remind myself I cannot write my pauses for thought, or any interruptions, into my story flow. Work with a person-translator until you develop clarity in your written English. Please stay with us in discussions, and start a Progress Journal or Blog to keep us up-to-date on your project. Start by describing your situation, then maybe what your story is about. You don't need to show us chapters to tell us what's going on.
Keep at it and best of luck. I'll be watching for that Progress Journal.

 

I think what @Some Guy is trying to say is perhaps that your grasp of English isn't proficient enough to be playing with turns of phrases, and that if you attempted, you would likely be unintentionally translating from Portuguese into English, which simply wouldn't work and wouldn't make much sense to the average native speaker. However, none of this means you have to write in Portuguese. You should write in whichever language you prefer. However, you must be realistic about your language skills. At your current level of English, it would not be publishable because it is not of native standard. This could change with practice and study - there are plenty of writers on this forum whose first language is not English and yet write in English first and foremost. Writing in a second language isn't a problem (Nabokov did), but your grasp of the second language must be of such a level that a native speaker reading your work would not be able to tell you apart from another native speaker.

If your wish is to become published and to work on a manuscript with the potential to be published, then writing in Portuguese for the moment would make more sense for you, because it's going to be less work and would happen faster.

If your wish is simply to have fun writing and one day you may want to be published - but whether you're published right now doesn't really matter to you - then write in English. Because why not? Your English will improve with time. Depending on your exposure to English, diligence in study, and perhaps any innate talent for languages, you may or may not reach proficiency, which means publishing in English may or may not be possible for you.

When I started writing as a 9 year old kid, English wasn't my first language. It's since become so dominant that I call it my mother tongue. But when I first started writing - all the way back then - my English wasn't proficient either. However, I grew up in England and was educated there as a child, so I was given a unique environment to reach proficiency that is likely unavailable to many. But if I didn't write in English all the way back then just because my English wasn't proficient yet, then I might not be writing in English now.

So write in whichever language you prefer, but be very realistic about your level in each language and thus how realistic your goals may be.