Two Romance Readers and One Sci-Fi Nerd read Dune

*Shrug*

Paul is a duke's son and his mother is a Bene Gesserit. Gaius Helen Mohiam comes to perform a test on a boy whom she knows will not be your average Joe off the street. He even tries to use the voice on her. Her words and her disdain for Paul are to throw him off the game she knows he will bring to the test. She makes the implied insult of him being an animal purely to offend him. This how Frank writes. There will be more.

 

I may not have got far enough to see him use the voice. Sounds like the force hehe.

Ah... I read many things very literally. Looks like I may not be enjoying this book then and shall continue to be confused...

 

I misspoke. He doesn't use the voice on her at this point. He does resist her attempt to use it on him. Just got to that part myself.

 

Also, in the subsequent conversation, you learn that there is a core of literality as regards human vs. not-human. It's not completely spelled out yet, but you are given to know that the definition is not the same as what you and I use in the here and now.

"We Bene Gesserit sift people to find the humans."

~ Gaius Helen Mohiam

 

@Mckk -Reader 'confusion' in a story is bad, if the reader can't follow what's going on and has to keep backtracking, to put pieces together or figure out the chronology of the story.

However, if the reader doesn't understand WHY something is happening, that's a different thing. Finding out why may well be the point of the story. Why did she say that? Why does he do that? Why does everybody believe that? This kind of thing.

I'd say (from my memory of Dune) the important thing to keep in mind, as you read the first few chapters, is who the characters are and their relationship to one another. (Like you, I found some of the names off-putting at first. Everybody has prejudices, I suppose. Mine is an aversion to sci-fi/fantasy names that have apostrophes in them. I can learn to live with that minor irritation in a really good story, but I don't enjoy it much—or see the point.)

Other strange, unworldly stuff (political and otherwise) will become clear as you keep reading. It's a voyage of discovery you're on. No point in knowing everything about the journey beforehand.

 

Wow. This blew up quick. I'm normally not on the forum at all on Saturdays and Sundays, so apologies for missing the start of the fun.

@LinnyV - The sparkly pink Dune cover is probably the single most hilarious thing I've seen on this forum.

To the general comments about it being a bit slow on the startup - remember it's an epic. It's probably going to take it's time getting moving, in the interest of getting you immersed in the richness of the world. I tend not to read epics, but I'll take it for what it is rather than expecting a thriller.

Also, since people have brought up Star Trek (SQUEE!) and some other sci-fi TV shows - it's probably worth bringing up the subgenre divisions within Science Fiction (a hobby horse of mine if you ever catch me on a worldbuilding thread). Star Trek, Star Wars, and Battlestar Galactica all fall under the category of "Space Opera". Space Operas are first and foremost adventure stories - adventure stories in space - but adventure stories. They have a fast pace, a thrilling plot, and generally aren't that into hard science (most of the science in Star Trek is technobabble gibberish...trust me, the writers don't know how the inertial dampers work any more than you do). The other end of the spectrum is Epic or "Hard" SF. Hard SF generally prioritizes real science, devotes itself to examining one facet of society that would be impacted by technology, and really can get down into the weeds of the scientific questions it poses...it's not about adventure, it's usually long, and it has a slower and more epic pace. "The Three-Body Problem" would be a classic example of Hard SF - half the book deals with orbital mechanics.

Dune isn't quite Hard SF, because the window-dressing and worldbuilding is more Space Opera than hard science - but it certainly is Epic SF. It's not a space opera adventure story in the sense that Star Trek is - and it's certainly not going to be a rollicking rockets-and-ray-guns shoot-em-up. That said, it's likely to go pretty deep into its issues and provide a more literary experience. All of which is to say - give it time to boot up.

Really cool to have @Wreybies along for the ride! I'll do my best to keep up, and since I'm no good on weekends, I'll try to put up reactions on Mondays. The epigraphs should work for me since I'll be on the audiobook - that might even have chapter divisions.

Here goes nothing!

 

Also - I'm not big on sci-fi/fantasy naming conventions either, but my experience is that you get used to the verbiage as you get into it.

 

I found the 1st 2 epigraphs last night on the Audible version. The first one right at the beginning, the second at around 50 minutes 50 seconds. I'm guessing that I was supposed to listen (or read) through the second and stop at the third.

 

I think we're stopping at the second epigraph for the first lot of reviews.

But maybe just state which epigraphs you stopped at with every review

 

@Commandante Lemming - well, I'm a pretty impatient reader, so I guess I'll withhold judgement and keep reading and give it a chance! Not a huge fan of space opera myself but I do enjoy adventures and thrilling plots. I do love Firefly though!

 

It does require a measure of patience. This book is, in its own way, a "Game of Thrones", but it's also many other things.

Frank Herbert is a contemporary of the Beat Writers. I often think of him and Delany as the Lost Beat Boys. His writing is not at all in the "beat" style, but the cultural influences, the time in which he lived, the things that interested him, all of these things have strong parallels with the writers who later became known as the Beat Writers.

 

Huh? I thought a true authentic Sci-Fi nerd would love that stuff? Aren't you suppose to be marinating and rolling around in all that Dune lingo, practicing it in front of a mirror and getting in character?

I was mildly unimpressed that Frank threw in the word "Baliset" as if I should know what it was as I was getting settled into the story. Thankfully, unlike back in the 60s, I'm reading on an iPhone and that means the Dune wiki is a couple of clicks away.

Anyway, how about some mood music to keep us in theme and on track.

Here's "Captain Picard" playing a "baliset". Just skip to the 20 sec mark and listen for all of 10 secs. That should be enough keep you all reading - maybe not.

I was momentarily confused why the star trek dude was playing an instrument from Dune, and I'm embarrassed to say I thought he was "Captain Kirk". Just as well I googled the Star Trek captains before I posted!

NOT much of a Sci-Fi nerd.

 

@Mckk, hopefully by being an impatient reader you are not also referring to that the two epigraphs may not be enough to keep you occupied. I figured we all have our own writing commitments and reading interests and life in general, so I thought to keep it not so intensive - at least to start. I am actually having to re-read the darn thing in sections since I am treating this like a science project for the genre and for the writing techniques being used. That requires much more analysis for me who doesn't need or like to have her brain over taxed when enjoying some written entertainment.

We can take on much more epigraphs after this week if we think we can move faster? Just concerned people may be getting impatient in general.

 

Hahaha! Okay - there are different types of SciFi nerds. I for one tend to prefer slightly nearer futures with human characters and recognizable names. This is why, as much as I love Star Wars, I am firmly in the Star TREK camp when it comes to picking sides. That's not to say I don't read far futures with weirdly named aliens, right now I'm reading a book about tree dwelling anthropomorphic elephants who get stolen by spaceships, and the characters have names like Pizlo and Jorl and Tonta. But that's not my favorite part of the experience, and I like naming conventions to at least sound plausible. I'm also generally NOT a fantasy reader which is where you find a lot more weird naming conventions.

My own stuff tends very much that way - I'm writing a very close near-future and my main character is a decidedly normal Greek-American woman from Wisconsin.

Oh - and as much as I like Captain Picard, "Deep Space Nine" is my Trek series. Captain Sisko was the bomb, especially when he had Colonel Kira backing him up.

 

And based on how long people said the first epigraph was, that's a decent size chunk. If I read right, that's about an hour for me on audible, and my standard "Bet Me" reading was an hour and a half per week. For what it's worth, that one epigraph takes up almost all of the first "Chapter" of the audiobook, and the audiobook divides the book into 22 chapters in order to break it in to sections. So, if they're about the same length, I'm going to guess that the book as a whole has somewhere between 22 and 25 epigraphs. So that's how many chunks we have to look at.

 

See, and I'm the complete opposite. One of my biggest pet peeves with Sci-Fi is when the story paints a totally fantastic, completely revamped, super-ultra-technologies future.... just ten years away.

Sorry, I've seen almost five "10 years away" now in my life and save for some little tech toys and changes in clothing fashion, things are still pretty much the same. I prefer Sci-Fi to throw me so far into the future that there's time-line enough for pretty much anything.

 

Also, that's Gurney Halleck playing the baliset . That's from the extended version of the David Lynch version of DUNE. Lynch got the feel and color and tone right, but he blew the story-line straight down his leg.

 

I'm glad this thread finally got going! Pretty excited for this after the hilarity of its predecessor. I actually just put a hold on the book from the library so maybe I'll get it in time to keep up with you guys. The only sci-fi novel I've ever read was The Andromeda Strain, which I don't remember much about the plot since I read it a while ago, but I remember that I really liked it. I think that one was pretty fast paced and suspenseful though. Dune sounds slower to pick up, being an epic. Still...I need something new to read!

 

Okay, this thread is moving fast so I am trying to keep track. If I got anything wrong or missed you in the count then please let me know.

To sum up the confirmed reviewers to date...

@Mckk - Romance reader impatient, frustrated and probably thinking "why is this book written in an alien language?!"

@LinnyV - Romance reader who has it hardwired that Patrick Stewart is indeed Captain Kirk!

@Commandante Lemming - Sci-Fi nerd who doesn't like it too out there or too far in the future. Preferably humanoid rebels taking control of a spaceship with limited range in a world very similar to our own... Only in this world people don't walk, they're beamed everywhere and even if they appear to be present, they're not really. They're holographic images. Also, no elephants in space.

@Wreybies - Sci-Fi nerd who prefers Sci-fi to be far flung and out there, like end of time and end of the Universe far... This would mean space ships with a greater range, navigated by highly evolved Elephants with strange names like O'Dumbo Eli-Fant.

@doggiedude - Unknown reader, but why am I imagining him wearing his earphones chilling out on planet Easy-Reading?

@KokoN - Unknown reader waiting to borrow the book on planet Earth.... Welcome aboard and very happy to hear from you.

Okay... I'm having way too much fun at everyone's expense, especially the nerdier ones of this group. I am sorry!

To anyone else that wants to hop on-board, feel free to do so. We've still got room on our humble spaceship.



ETA: I should also say, tell us what you normally read as well if you're coming for the ride but you don't have to of course. Just interesting to understand people's reading background and where they might be coming from when giving their thoughts on Dune. (@doggiedude and @KokoN - that's why I put unknown )

 

So, is it cool to talk about the chapter now?

Spoiler: DO NOT READ YET!!!

One thing even I am noting having to put in its place as regards literary context is Paul's set-up in this first chapter as a clear and obvious "chosen one". Today chosen ones are ten a penny, but back then.... I remember reading this as a kid in 70's and reading the Reverend Mother ask herself is he the one, and how loaded with mystery and portent this question was for me. And then to read that he may be the kwisatz haderach! Of course, I'm clueless as to what this means at this point but the flavor of the alien words upon my tongue! Kull Wahad! At this point, the little Puerto Rican kid lost in the corn fields of Omaha, Nebraska has been whisked away to a future unlike anything he's seen in the movies or TV. This wasn't Star Wars or Star Trek or Battlestar Galactica (the original show, which at the time was on fire on U.S. TV). These words that sounded vaguely arabic gave me visions of veiled exotic beauties and hidden treasures, both physical and intellectual. There was also something profoundly jarring in the way the test with the pain box is explained to Paul. Remember, it's the 1970's for me. Things aren't like now. The idea that a boy passing this test would amaze the R.M., but that girls pass this test routinely as acolytes... this is strange to me. Girls are stronger than boys? What? Holy crap! Everything I know is a lie! Yes, that moment is tainted somewhat by Paul withstanding more pain than any girl ever had in the R.M.'s experience, but still.

 

Arghhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have deliberately not read much of what you said above @Wreybies! Is that your report? Does it have spoilers?

Where do you live? I'm pretty certain it is not the weekend in Puerto Rico! UNLESS you are in another reality....

 

I spoiler tagged it. I didn't realize we were waiting until the weekend. I missed that memo. Sorry. And, yes, there are spoilers, so I've hidden it. It's just that I had a flash of how I felt and engaged the beginning of the story when I was young and I needed to get the words out or they would be lost.

 

@Wreybies no worries and very sweet that you wanted to capture the feeling and now that spoiler tag has me curious - must resist!

I am having a very boring life of doing technical system related work at this very moment which means I don't get to be a bookworm. I haven't gathered my thoughts on Dune, was hoping to do that Friday evening after the weekly grind was done and report in on Saturday my time.

 

Actually you and me have the same pet peeves - I write Social SF, so my worldbuilding is all demographics and political science and sociology - and I've had readers get really mad at me for the fact that my future doesn't look like "the future". Refuse to do flying cars or body-tech implants or any of that - and the funny things is that a lot of readers ding me for being "unrealstic" by not predicting more progress (It's "unrealistic" that the Catholic church doesn't have female cardinals in 2034, it's "unrealistic" that 77 is still considered old in 2034, it's "unrealistic" that the characters carry cell phones, etc.) I'm not for book burning but someday I'd like to light a bunch of cyberpunk and dystopian novels on fire because of the ideas they've given my readers about the future.

I like the idea of the near future, but I've seen it done badly so many times that I've become obsessed with doing it "right".

And actually the reason that I'm still such a Trekkie is that it strikes the perfect balance - 300-400 years in the future is far enough out that I'll buy into the craziness, but close enough that the characters are still recognizable humans. Foundation worked for me as well becasue while it's way, way, way out in the future, humanity is still humanity.

 

I haven't read The Andromeda Strain but yeah, you're in for a different ride. I love Crichton's stories, but his stuff is generally considered "techno-thriller" - which is to say that a lot of people consider it to be primary in the Thriller genre with SciFi elements (although I'm fine classifying Jurassic Park as SF personally). Thrillers by definition have a really fast pace, whereas Dune is more of a classic SciFi epic.