Two Romance Readers and One Sci-Fi Nerd read Dune

Dune Weapon: Maula pistol
A hand-held pistol that was used to fire poison darts. It had a range of approximately 40 metres. Maula pistols usually maintained a spring-loaded mechanism. They were popular weapons during Wars of Assassins during the days of the Faufreluches.



@Mckk I think we can possibly load the above weapon with tranquilizers enough to take down a Troll that infiltrated the Moderator team. Do I need to shoot you to save you from yourself?

 

But I am a happy troll!!

 

So, just reached the epigraph below (3rd):

Thus spoke St. Alia-of-the-Knife: "The Reverend Mother must combine the seductive wiles of a courtesan with the untouchable majesty of a virgin goddess, holding these attributes in tension so long as the powers of her youth endure. For when youth and beauty have gone, she will find that the place-between, once occupied by tension, has become a wellspring of cunning and resourcefulness."​

Verdict: I rather enjoyed this, funnily enough, even though it was basically all of it telling, or to put it in a negative light, a massive amount of infodump, really. However, this is infodump done in such a way that was actually pretty engaging, so I'd say that was pretty skilled.

Summary: the Baron Harkonnen, the Maud'Dib's mortal enemy, is planning the demise of the Duke Leto (tangent: Leto means summer in Czech hehe). I got a little lost in places here and there but as far as I understood, the Baron is hoping to take over Dune, although I'm not sure I understood quite why. His nephew Feyd-Rauth has been invited to listen in on this meeting and to hear the Baron's cunning schemes, since he is the Baron's heir. Pitter, the Baron's personal Mentat, which is something of a psychic and/or strategy advisor. The Mentat tells the Baron what will or will not happen in the future, as well as all the possibilities of what could happen. It seems every noble house has one (Duke Leto's is Thufir Hawat, someone under whom Paul himself trained). Back to Pitter - he has horrid blue eyes without any white in it. He is an 'it', not human, though he is in a human body. Whether that is metaphorical - a reference to what the witch woman spoke of about sifting people to find humans, or if a Mentat is truly not biologically human, this is not clarified, and I believe that is intentional.

I didn't quite understand the whole directorship/CHOAM business but CHOAM seems to be a treasury from which the Houses draw their funds to stay competitive.

So anyway, Pitter reveals that Duke Leto's doctor, Dr Yueh will betray Leto and kill him, and Hawat will be misdirected to suspect the Lady Jessica instead because Yueh has imperial conditioning - basically a kind of brainwash I guess - which means it should be impossible to turn him into a traitor. The Baron is eager to see the Duke and all his house, the Atreides, go to their ruin and it is of paramount importance to the Baron that the Duke knew who struck the killing blow, both as sweet revenge and so the other houses will know to fear the Baron and therefore give him power. The Baron is considering getting rid of Pitter because he annoys him, and they don't think much of each other.

Through all this somehow the Baron will be getting richer and richer. I didn't understand why.

The intriguing thing about this whole thing was really Pitter's relationship with the Baron. Some of Herbert's descriptions here were truly excellent and I got this sense that Pitter is a nasty piece of work, someone who takes great delight in pain, and who fears no one, as well as deeply disloyal - perhaps that's why he is horrifying to me. I am definitely waiting for him to stab the Baron in the back, and do something truly, truly despicable. Oh and we know Lady Jessica has been 'promised' to him. Lots of kidnapping and drama to be expected!

So, that's all from me for now! I am looking forward to the next part Herbert's characterisation is excellent.

 

@Mckk, I think it's great for everyone to chatter about epigraph 1&2 , but is it possible we hold off on epigraph 3? I think this will start getting way out of hand if we all randomly start jumping ahead as far as posting thoughts.

Just a suggestion. I'm staying away from this thread arm until I catch up.

 

Kind of like watching a Mel Brooks movie, then going out to dinner in a posh restaurant immediately afterwards. I'm not kidding. Dare ya.

 

I've been sitting on my hands for this reason, since I kicked off the last round of unrestrained posting. If nothing else, @LinnyV, take this as a compliment to the interest and enjoyment your thread topic has engendered.

 

Oh that'd be a pity - don't stay away from the thread!! Won't be half as much fun without you

All right all right, I'll hold off from posting any more reviews. I just like to write it up immediately afterwards when everything's still fresh in my mind, and I don't want to wait till next weekend before I can keep reading. As the Chinese says, when you've "cut off your breath" (can you figure out which phrase it is in Cantonese? ), it's not as much fun. To read it "in one breath" is most enjoyable.

However, I'll just be writing them in my Word documents instead and then posting them all one by one then

 

@Mckk oh I'm loving your enthusiasm but just mindful we all want to be on the same page as far as analysis, so everyone feels like they're travelling together on this journey. Maybe you can save your reviews in a little diary so you'll always be waaaaaaay ahead and organised? hehe.

But my interest is really about the journey together and again being mindful that there are others with different schedules.

Look at the end of the day, it's up to everyone. But if we treat this as much as a book club as we can, then we can all keep track. So we don't need to scroll back and forth and hope we didn't miss anything.

Not trying to be a party pooper, just trying to keep to our original intent.

 

@Mckk Oh good! We might try suggest an extra epigraph to everyone for next week so you don't explode from containing too much Dune insights...

Who would have thought you were going to be such a Dune reading enthusiast. Are you turning into a Sci-Fi nerd?

 

it's true that the intervals between each epigraph is really really short. I read for 30min and am already at the next one and it doesn't feel like I've read anything at all! It's like watching a movie where you pause every 10min I guess I have time because my husband is just a star with looking after our little one whenever he's home from work. I also teach 3 times a week which means I've 30-45min of commute time in all to waste on reading

Anyway see how you get on with the first 2 epigraphs this week. No point adding more epigraphs if you won't have time for more. I am happy to keep my little diary it's no problem. I'd rather we all have fun!

So have you started reading at all? Come to think of it, it's Friday (in about 40min) - so there's only one more day for you to complete the read

So you should actually know if adding more epigraphs is realistic? Do others want to lengthen the reading portions? @Commandante Lemming

 

Who's Mel Brooks?

 

@LinnyV - Nah wouldn't say I'm a Sci Fi nerd yet. I usually know by the 30-50% point if I want to finish the book definitely and I'm nowhere near that mark with Dune yet!

But I love suspense, crime, and fantasy. So far Dune seems to have elements of all these, so definitely looking good

 

I've been holding off doing my first review on Epigraphs 1 & 2. I actually listened up to five the first day so I was going to start back at the beginning tomorrow and write something up. Don't let me hold anyone back. I could do the whole book in two days if I really wanted to.

 

@doggiedude - please write the review in 1&2. @Wreybies has done that so we'll all stay on target, except for the speedy reader @Mckk. This is like coralling sheep only harder, writers have too complicated a mind of their own. This thread is going to be a big one, so if we can all kinda stick with the program that will help for this week maybe. We'll try and pick up the pace next week.

@Mckk, I am still in epigraph 1 - will read it all this evening. I couldn't read it much because I wanted to absorb it but work is bad this week. I will tappity tap a post tomorrow with a free mind.

And btw... you realize with all the crazy emoticons you're using in your posts to me on top of your sudden troll-like persona, this is how I picture you to look like now?

 

Mentats are human computers. The Butlarian Jihad that was alluded to in the previous chapter outlawed any kind of machine (computer) that imitates the mind of a person. Just where the line gets crossed between an acceptable machine (like, say, simple calculator) and something that has crossed the line is controversial within the DUNEiverse.

The blue of his eyes is explained when the baron remarks on how much Spice Piter consumes.

"But, Uncle—"

"A most efficient Mentat, Piter, wouldn't you say, Feyd?"

"Yes, but—"

"Ah! Indeed but! But he consumes too much spice, eats it like candy. Look at his eyes! He might've come directly from the Arrakeen labor pool. Efficient, Piter,but he's still emotional and prone to passionate outbursts. Efficient, Piter, but he still can err."​

The way the Baron refers to him as "it" when talking to Fayde about him is a manner of speech. The Baron is a strange person and quite full of himself. But Piter is not in any way non-biological or robotic. This is precluded by the edicts of the Jihad that was previously mentioned. You are quite right, though, that he is a nasty little piece of work. Even the Baron, who himself has already been presented as an egotistic and power-hungry suffers Piter for his services, but he goes so far as to tell him that perhaps one day he will kill him. The Baron has some traits himself that I find a little difficult to stomach. He mention's Paul as having a "sweet young body", which is the first hint dropped about his predilections that aren't painted in a way that sits well with me as a gay person.

Agreed. And I agree that the scene does serve as rather a protracted info-dump to sketch out for us a but better the societal structure we will be engaging. At least its presented through this bizarre little exchange between Piter and the Baron, and exchange that you'll note ruffles even the feather of Feyde Rautha who you can feel is just looking for a way to slip out of that room the whole time.

 

Okay, so I’m a Sci-Fi and fantasy enthusiast. I saw the movie a couple of times over the years and liked it. Read the book and thought it was okay. It’s been a long time since I’ve gone through this book & I’m going to try to keep my opinions limited to what a read now and not what I know what happens eventually in the story.

It starts with blah blah blah. Somebody special is coming, everyone keep an eye out for him, he’s gonna be something great.

A secret old women is let into the castle, looks at a kid and calls him “sly” because he’s pretending to be asleep. Sounds like a normal teenager to me. What did she expect him to do when an old woman peeks in his room at night? Come to think of it. He’s royalty. Shouldn’t he expect guards to prevent this sort of thing? Why isn’t he jumping out of bed screaming Guards! GUARDS!

Oh… The old woman was with his mother and calling her mean names. It must be okay then.
Now the kid mentions his father is a duke and he’s the heir. That sounds good.
But wait, now he mentions his father has royal assassins. What kind of family keeps assassins on retainer?

His family is going to a desert planet because their great enemy is leaving the planet and his father is taking over control for some other Duke. But wait, isn’t his father also a Duke? How does one Duke have authority over another? Shouldn’t one of them be a King or Emperor, maybe a Baron? (What the heck is a Baron anyway?)

Then he dreams about dripping water and he’s pretty sure it’s a dream with special meaning. When I dream about dripping water it means I need to pee.

He lays in bed describing some kind of meditation thing. Breathing, consciousness, flowing, animals, humans, blah blah blah. I think he might be mastribating. Not sure.

In the morning his mother busts into his room and gets some clothes out for him to wear. Seriously, is he fifteen or five?
Mom is nervous, he’s got an appointment with the old reverend woman. Before coffee WTF!

POV switches to the Reverend Mother. We get a bunch of description of her highfalutin qualifications. She sounds impressive. She’s also mad because Paul was supposed to be a girl.
Mom is kicked out
Paul is petulant about his mother’s treatment.
Reverend Mother pulls out a mysterious box and tells Paul to put his hand in it. She uses some kind of mind control on him. She threatens him with poison. A poison that only kills animals. Paul gets mad at her calling him an animal. What kind of poison only kills animals? Aren’t we animals?

She tells him the only rule is to keep his hand in the box. If he takes it out she will kill him. He starts to feel pain in his hand. Then burning. He asks some questions. She tells him to be quiet. Then SILENCE! What happened to there only being one rule? After he pulls his hand out it’s fine. Just a trick. She tells him a human can override any nerve in the body. I guess she’s never heard of reflexes.
She declares him human. I think a doctor’s physical would have been easier.

Mom comes back in the room. POV switch. My son’s okay… my son is OK!!
POV switch to Paul … Mom went through this test, it must have been for a good reason.
We learn that men used to make computers. But now that sort of thing isn’t done because … because …. Um religion?
Paul displays some sort of great insight because he knows the woman comes from a group that’s involved with politics. Great job Paul!
Then she talks about her group doing something with human genetics. No idea what that has to do with politics.
Paul asks if he is this kwisatz haderach. She tells him about some truth drug. A drug that lets women look into their female past to find something I’m not sure of. But the kwisatz haderach can look into their own female and male past. What any of this has to do with truth is beyond me.
All the men who have tried this have died. You get to try it next Paul, I think this lady has it out for you.

End 1

 

@LinnyV there was once when I was 17 abs mender of a different forum, I used 20 or do so emoticons in a single post hehe. But I think WF limits it to 5 per post? I definitely remember some kinds of limit cause I've hit it before!

In my defense I teach small children - you've got to be naturally high to do a job like that and I'm writing this at 5am with a baby asleep in my arms! I'm just surprised there aren't more typos in my posts cause even my latest review was all typed up on my phone!

 

@doggiedude everything you expressed in your review was kinda exactly why I was very unimpressed with the beginning! Thank you for giving me a good chuckle hehe.

 

Part 2

Baron Harkonnen and Piter are at a desk looking at a fancy globe showing Arrakis the desert planet full of paprika or some kind of spice. The Baron’s nephew is in the room with them. They get a message from Duke Leto Atreides that has him refusing some meeting. They talk about revenge they must be the antagonists.

The Duke threatens Piter. Piter says since he’s a mentat he’ll see it coming. Does that make him a ninja?
POV change to nephew. He whines to himself about having better things to do.
The Duke hears his nephew’s thoughts and asks him if he’s learning anything.
Evil plot is revealed. Some doctor is going to kill some of those Atreides bastards Under orders from Harkonnen.
More talk about Paul supposed to be female.
Piter makes mistakes even as a mentat. So is he a court advisor as well as a ninja? He has blue eyes, that I understood.
Okay, they sort of explain a mentat as a biological computer. Sort of. I think. Not sure.
Is he telling the future or predicting things with statistics? Could be either.
Um.. then there is something about smuggling on Arrakis in conjunction with some Emperor. They don’t seem to know for sure if Atreides is going to Arrakis. They seem to want this. Didn’t Harkonnen just leave Arrakis in the last chapter? If he wants Arrakis why did he leave?

The doctor is going to kill Paul. The doctor is supposed to be the ultimate in imperial loyalty. He isn’t. After the kid is killed they will attack! Because …. Um money. There’s something about the Emperor, maybe the Harkonnen’s are working with the Emperor. Maybe not. Shouldn’t an Emperor not stab one of his own Duke’s in the back.
Duke Harkonnen is fat. Really really fat. There’s some sort of suspension thing holding him up. He’s OMG 200 Kg that’s like 440 lbs. He’s like the size of an average Wal-Mart customer. I guess Frank Herbert didn’t expect 440 lbs to become common.
Oh .. The Duke is also hungry.

End 2

 

I'll let you know, I'm doing my reading Friday and I'm going to knock out an hour of audible. We'll see where I get to

 

The 2nd epigraph ends at 50 minutes. Not sure how long others are.

 

Young Frankenstein, Blazing Saddles ...ach, you're too young!

 

Men in Tights, Space Balls, The Producers.

 

@Commandante Lemming @jannert - not heard of any of those, except for The Producers, which I have seen just once and didn't honestly see why it's so special lol.

 

The original or the awful remake?
How about History of The World Part 1?