1. Maksynne

    Maksynne Member

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    Verb tenses driving me crazy in diary style

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Maksynne, Sep 3, 2017.

    Hello everybody!

    I have decided to join the forum because I want to become a better writer, and also because I'm having A LOT of problems figuring out the verb tenses in my diary-style fic.

    The writer of the diary is writing the things that happened to him during that same day, so I mostly use past tense for the majority of the actions. However, sometimes he talks about things that are still going on and that are still true in the present. In those instances I figure he must write those things in present tense, right?

    The problem I'm having is that the switching of tenses seems to interrupt the flow of the text, making the readers snap out of the story!

    Here is an example:

    I sat on the bed and scratched the bandage on my arm. The cuts from the blood ritual are still open, and my fingers became wet with blood that had soaked through the gauze. I stood up and drank a potion, knowing that it would be wasted. I knew these cuts would take a very long time to heal—it has happened before, and it will happen again. Every physical enhancer always has its consequences... The price to pay for using lyrium is to lose one's mind. The price to pay for using dark magic is——better not to think about it.
    I'm a newbie at writing and I'm also not a native English speaker, so please feel free to point out everything that is wrong with this fragment.

    How can I make it better? Tips anyone?

    I have a thousand other questions, but for now this little help will do wonders for me.

    Thank you in advance!
     
  2. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Senior Member

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    Hah, I don't even know what a tense is. Learning formal grammar is not necessary. I would say that you just haven't been exposed to enough good prose.

    The cuts from the ritual (you should have described it previously, thus the 'blood' is redundant) were still open. The blood had soaked through the gauze and my fingers came away red and dripping. ('I stood up and drank a potion' combines two actions and looks amateurish.) Try: I grabbed a fizzing green potion and drank it, feeling a warm tickling in my throat as it went down. It was likely wasted - these cuts would take a long time to heal. Every physical enhancer has a price (the character going into detail about the other things isn't necessary here).
     
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  3. Maksynne

    Maksynne Member

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    Great advice, I will keep that in mind!

    The rest of what you wrote is beautiful, but I think the style you propose is too poetic for this fic in particular. This is supposed to be a quick diary entry written by a man who is a warrior (thus I imagine he goes straight to the point and writes mostly facts without embellishments)

    The blood ritual was mentioned in a previous diary entry, so in this particular fragment we should assume we know what he is talking about. The biggest problem I'm having is this: He is telling us what he did in the morning in past tense (he woke up, scratched his arm) but then he is telling us that the cuts are still open in present tense.

    My ear tells me that this sentence should be like: "The cuts from the blood ritual were still open" but the thing is, the cuts were open this morning, and they are still open now as he writes this entry. So how can we approach this? Should I write were open and forget about the current state of the wound? Or should I write are open and hope for the best?

    Thanks for the help!
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
  4. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    He's writing about a past event, so it's reasonable for it all to be past tense. The fact that part of the situation is still true doesn't need to change that.
     
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  5. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Senior Member

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    Well, how would you write a diary entry of your own day?

    It should definitely be are open. If he's still bleeding at the time of writing, why wouldn't he mention that? Saying "the cuts were still open this morning" would be redundant.
     
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  6. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I disagree. If I said, say,

    I was extra careful while eating my tomato soup at lunch, because I was wearing a white shirt and didn't want to stain it.

    but I was saying it in the evening of the same day while still wearing the white shirt, I wouldn't say

    I was extra careful while eating my tomato soup at lunch, because I'm wearing a white shirt and didn't want to stain it.

    I would see the whole event in the past, and wouldn't parse out details that happened to continue unchanged.

    Now, if the details were of very long standing, that might be an exception.

    I was extra careful while eating my tomato soup at lunch, because I wear white shirts and didn't want to stain today's shirt.
     
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  7. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Senior Member

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    I don't get what you're arguing for. My suggestion was that she write it as "I performed a blood ritual yesterday and the cuts are still bleeding," rather than "the cuts were still bleeding when I woke up this morning."
     
  8. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    If she wants to write the whole thing in present tense it would be "I am sitting on the bed, the cuts on my arm are still bleeding, from this morning's etc " if its written in past it would be "I sat on the bed, the cuts on my arm were still bleeding, from that morning's"

    Either is fine, but mixing tenses is not
     
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  9. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I feel like you're a bit too polished for realistic diary-writing already, but that may be another thread?

    But for me, at least, if I were writing a diary, I'd probably be a bit chattier, and that might fit your needs?

    I sat on the bed and scratched the bandage on my arm. The cuts from the blood ritual were still open (and still are), and my fingers became wet with blood that had soaked through the gauze.
    It's not pretty, but if you're going for a genuine diary style, I think there's going to be some ugliness.

    Side note: As soon as I read "lyrium" I thought Dragon Age. If this is a fanfic, carry on, but if you're trying for original fiction you might want to name the stuff something else?
     
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  10. Maksynne

    Maksynne Member

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    I like your suggestion. I think I will try this.
    Guilty as charged! This is a fan fiction of Dragon Age 2 :D
     
  11. Maksynne

    Maksynne Member

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    Thank you for this, your examples are so clear I think I understand better now how to approach this.
     
  12. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Se hace un poco difícil, entiendo, porque en Español tendemos a mezclar el tiempo pasado y el tiempo presente cuando estamos hablando y contando una serie de eventos.

    "Pues, mira... Estaba yo en el supermercado y vi a Maria, y la saludé y ella me dice que algo le pasa al carro y ella se quedó a pie."

    Eso es super normal, y también se hace en Ingles, cuando estamos hablando, pero al escribir, las reglas del uso del tiempo verbal son más fuertes. Lo que te dice @ChickenFreak es lo correcto. ;)
     
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  13. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    If I were you, I would just pretend you are writing a letter to a friend. A diary is essentially the same thing. Do you write letters (or emails?) If so, you can just adopt the same tone, keeping in mind the personality of your character. I don't think the tenses will be a problem, if you write in a contemporary mode. What is past is past, and what is happening now is in present tense and what you think is going to happen will be in a future tense. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Just pretend you're writing FOR somebody or talking directly to them.


    I sat on the bed and scratched the bandage on my arm. The cuts from the blood ritual were still open, and my fingers became wet with blood that had soaked through the gauze. I stood up and drank a potion, knowing that it would be wasted. I know these cuts will take a very long time to heal—it has happened before, and it will happen again. Every physical enhancer always has its consequences... (I also know) the price I will pay for using lyrium is to lose my mind. The price I'll pay for using dark magic is——I better not think about it.

    I've used italics just to indicate where I made changes in your wording. I didn't intend for the italics to be kept!
     
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  14. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Para ser honesto, en un diario mezclar tiempos es menos un problema, porque usted está en parte informando lo que pasó anteriormente y en parte cómo se siente ahora. Ahora es el momento en que se escribe la entrada. (no, no hablo español, google translate es mi amigo)
     
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  15. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Hahaha! :-D And on this occasion, it was your friend (though, usted is a bit formal for the venue). Google Translate can kick back some seriously hilarious end results. :whistle:
     
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  16. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Yeah you don't have to worry about it putting you out of work any time soon
     
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  17. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Não menos importante porque os idiotas podem muito bem pressionar o botão errado
     
  18. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Good thing Portugues and Spanish are alphabetically far apart on the list. ;)
     
  19. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Returning to the original, if i was writing this as a diary I'd omit the inessential info

    "Day whatever

    The cuts on my arms from the ritual are still bleeding. Blood has come through the gauze and soaked into my sheets while I slept. So much for the healing potion. Still I knew what i was getting into, every bit of magic has its price, and it will be worth it when .... whatever ... happens.. at least I didn't use Lyrium, I don't fancy going insane etc etc "
     
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  20. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Ieu leres tapi lalaki eta ngan rada salah meureun goréng. Kuring mikir malah anjeun teu nyarita Sunda

    (that is "this is true but getting it only slightly wrong is probably worse. I'm thinking even you don't speak Sudanese" )
     
  21. Maksynne

    Maksynne Member

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    I always write my own diary in past tense. But this arises another question I was also trying to figure out...

    You see, I noticed that when the entry is written all in past tense there is a feeling of detachment from the actions.

    For example, in an entry where the character is writing about how during the day he has been thinking about his dead lover, if I write it all in past tense it sounds too detached. I feel that the reader doesn't get to feel just how much the character misses this person. If I write it in present however, I think we get a stronger sense of his loss and his grief.

    Here's an example where I switched tenses from past to present:

    I left the Aerial resting by the fire, and wondered through the cave till I found a dark corner with views to the waterfall, where I've been sitting for the past few hours, lighting my pipe and inhaling the thick flavored smoke of my Fereldan tobacco in silence.

    I can't help wishing Anders were here with me, going over the surgical procedure while sharing a smoke and drinking ale together.

    It hasn't really hit me until now that Anders will never do these things with me again. I will never see his smug, sad little face. His long, sharp nose. His thin, curved lips. His silky blonde hair...

    Maker, how I miss that son of a bitch!

    Here's the example all in past tense:

    I walked through the cave and sat in a dark corner with views to the waterfall. I lit my pipe and inhaled the thick flavored smoke of my Fereldan tobacco in silence, and imagined for a moment that Anders was there with me going over the surgical procedure, sharing a smoke and drinking ale together.

    It didn't really hit me until then that Anders would never do those things with me again. I would never see his smug, sad little face. His long, sharp nose. His thin curved lips. His silky blonde hair...

    Maker, how I missed that son of a bitch!


    In the first example I moved from the past tense (of what he had been doing before) to the present (when he is suddenly remembering his dead lover) because I feel that it transmits better the emotions of the character. It makes the reader get under his skin a bit better.

    Is this transition of tenses correct? Am I wrong to think this way it feels more personal?

    Or should I just write it like in the second example, like if we were reading a book rather than someone's POV?
     
  22. Maksynne

    Maksynne Member

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    I love this. Thank you :love:
     
  23. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I vastly prefer the first version. I don't really see the point of acting like it's a diary entry unless there's room for some present-tense reflection and other diary-esque activity. Calling it a diary when really you're just writing a story? Nah.
     
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  24. Maksynne

    Maksynne Member

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    Thank you @jannert I see that with your edits it does read a lot better!
     
  25. Maksynne

    Maksynne Member

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    @BayView I thinks so too. Thanks :)
     

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