Watch two Sci-Fi nerds read a Romance Novel

Discussion in 'Romance' started by Commandante Lemming, Jan 12, 2016.

  1. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    I wasn't, I was just stating a fact. :D

    Only so much can be de-normalized. Smoking has both economic and health risks involved on the user, hence why more and more people stray away from it.

    Can we de-normalize war? I don't see this being feasible anytime in the near future.

    Point is somethings can be solved by having the facts and understanding the implications of things. As much as we want somethings to change and improve our world and way of life, their will always be elements that will remain for better or worse. Unless we manage to adopt a life style like Star Trek where war and currency are things of the past. Humans by definition are competitive, and are willing to lie, cheat, steal, and kill just to get what they want. Sure we can learn to kick bad habits to health and little things like that, but in the grander scheme there will always be those that will go against the grain. Can't stop anything from happening completely, although we would like to see a lot of things change for the better or cease. Humans as a species are not going to give up some of the things we should inherently give up for our survival and prosperity. :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
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  2. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    You'd enjoy Japan - there's minimal pirating there. It's impossible - or at least I couldn't find any - to find even Japanese subtitles, let alone the actual movie file in Japanese unless it's been widespread in the West.

    I won't defend pirating - I know I should buy the book - and who knows, I might have to considering finding the traditional Chinese version is really hard unless I wanna read it online (it doesn't concern the translators though since I'm going for the original anyway). That might well mean getting a friend to ship it over from Hong Kong because buying internationally costs an arm and a leg (and really hard to find a store that ships internationally anyway - I don't know where to look and I search in the wrong language 'cause my Chinese really isn't that good) - all this might mean it doesn't get read. We'll see eh.

    Anyway I personally wouldn't mind my book being pirated. Frankly, if it was popular enough to get pirated and downloaded, I'd be flattered. Maybe my stance on this will change if I ever do become famous and being read isn't such a rarity anymore.
     
  3. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    So - another week in. I'll probably be exceedingly brief on Chapters 7 and 8 because I just finished them and is 8:00 PM on Wednesday and I gave stiff to do...but I did read them.

    These were short chapters, focussed almost entirely on Cal and Min. They keep running into each other despite trying to avoid each other - to the point where even they are freaked out. A lot of it revolves around Cal's nephew Harry who has decided he likes Min and keeps inviting her to stuff - one plus being that his voice in the audiobook is hilariously adorable. Also Harry invited Min to one of his baseball games, which treated us to the opportunity to see Uncle Cal get sent to the hospital after getting whacked in the head with a baseball.

    Cynthie and David are still working their plan but it's increasingly obvious that they're screwed. They didn't show up a lot here which for me made the whole thing boring. Cynthie tried to show up at the baseball game but failed in her attempt to get Cal's attention.

    Also it's been revealed that Cynthie was the one who talked Harry' Mom (Cal's sister Bink) into signing the poor kid up for baseball despite the fact that he hates it. Apparently she thought it would be good for him from a psychoanalytical point of view. This woman has an incredible talent for messing up people's lives with her analysis. Luckily it seems like even professional cynic Liza is starting to figure out that Cynthie is full of it.

    David tried to ask Min out to lunch and was a total douchebag the whole time. He's such a raging moron that I no longer feel sorry for him. Not even a little.

    Oh, and Cal randomly found Min's snow globe that she's been looking for for 15 years in a box in her basement...which freaked both of them out so bad they're now trying to avoid eachother.

    I think the author is trying t ok make points about fate here, but the coincidences are piling up to the point where they are starting to feel contrived. Although, honestly it feels more contrived that Min and Cal are still trying to avoid eachother - which necessitates more contrivance to bring them back together.

    Not my favorite chapters, but I'm thinking that the next few will involve David and Cynthie descending to comic levels of desperation...and that I want to see. I know this is probably because I'm coming from outside the genre, but I'm enjoying watching those two fail much more than the main love story.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
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  4. furzepig

    furzepig Member

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    This is an awesome thread. :D I'm a fantasy geek myself, and I've been reading romance novels recently to help me with a romance arc in my own novel. I completely identify with the disoriented feeling you get when you encounter a new genre. I find myself coming across things that puzzle me and wondering whether I've come across a story problem or a genre convention I don't understand.

    Kudos to you guys for going outside your comfort zone and trying something different!
     
  5. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    Here's chapters 7-8. Review, tangent, same thing :D Really went off the rails on this one. :p :rant:

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9F_qq_FIRMc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
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  6. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    @Commandante Lemming it seems like these characters freak out a lot :supergrin:It's actually starting to sound so funny I'm tempted to read it.
     
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  7. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    Either that or I just overuse the words "freaked out"
     
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  8. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    LOL - "There's more important things going on than Elvis and foot size!"

    Even better - "I wouldn't be surprised if the guy burst into flames and f***in' rainbows and s**t!"

    "You live in some Groundhog Day, Murphy's Law Monday s**t!"

    "It's one of those things you want to take a cleaver too and start hacking it up like a damn zombie." - quotes you will only hear about this novel on this exact thread.

    Dude - your rants on this thing are epic. Please don't stop!

    Dear readers - I hope you are enjoying watching us become frustrated with this. That was kind of the point so I guess we're succeeding.

    And @Cave Troll - here's the question that I keep thinking about. Obviously we're both not heavy readers of Romance or Comedy - and obviously this is Romantic Comedy. We're both getting frustrated with the speed of the plot and the convenience of the events - which is why I think we're both rebelling against it, especially these two chapters. We both want it to move, but what are we actually expecting it to do? How do we actually WANT it to make us feel? I'm legitimately not sure because the goal in this book is radically different than the goal in what I usually read.

    If you're a roller-coaster designer and judge rides by those standards, how to you judge whether the "Tunnel of Love" gondola ride is any good or not? And what do you expect out of that?

    I guess I'm expecting to be given that warm, fuzzy Romantic feeling in a plausible way - the last bit being my hang up - but I genuinely don't know how I'm supposed to feel at this point in the book (Someone who actually reads the genre help us out here, please! Are we supposed to be totally frustrated with the main couple at the halfway point? Is that an attempt to build tension or just bad execution - I'm wondering how much of the frustration is purposeful and being used in the same way I try to use suspense).

    And Cave Troll - since we're at the halfway point of this thing and both getting mad at it - what does Crusie need to do to wrap it up in a way that's going to satisfy us? What climax are we actually looking for? I'm not entirely sure I know - but obviously I want something horrible to happen to Cynthie, I need Cal and Min to just admit they like each other and stop being idiots, and we need the whole original bet to blow up in everyone's face before the end - is that about right?

    Seriously - the biggest struggle is trying to decide what I actually want, and without that, I have no clue whether the author is delivering.

    And, dear readers, I'd really appreciate thought on whether all this frustration part of the expectations that come with the genre or not.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
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  9. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    @Commandante Lemming I am not really sure what I want out of it anymore. Probably just going to pussy foot around the whole couple liking/disliking, thing will be going round and round for awhile. At best give the Michael Bay treatment of nonsense to the already nonsensical plot of demands that need to be fulfilled. And at worst I will take a blunt Space Balls style wedding just to end the contrived insanity. :D

    Overall I would agree with your expectations. Though it will probably keep playing around the issues for tension, and trying to hard to force the relationship and the 'comedy'. I am still going with that she hit this point and forgot that it was part comedy hence the slapstick style humor.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
  10. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    It's probably deliberate. Romance novels end either happily-ever-after or happy-for-now, so there's no tension about whether or not they'll end up together. The conflict and tension comes from the journey along the way. I'm guessing, not having read this book, that you're supposed to be thinking "oh for heaven's sake, just FUCK already" and "someone needs to punch psycho Cynthie".

    I mean ideally, you would be rooting for the couple among all this frustration - wanting them to admit their feelings so they get together and be happy. I suspect you want them to get together just so you can stop reading the book. :D
     
  11. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    @Tenderiser I cannot speak for Commandante Lemming, but you crushed that nail right on the damned head. :p
     
  12. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    Yup! Agreed on all points. :)

    And yes - I think we both want it to be over. Although given that the point of this was partially to use ourselves as lab rats - and I can't speak for Cave Troll - I think my expectation was that by this point we would both want it to be over and that you could all laugh at our frustration. You're welcome. :p
     
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  13. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    Yes. Yes you can :)
     
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  14. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    Ahhh you sci-fi nerds are so predictable. ;)

    << Is joking by the way, in case anybody reading the thread is offended! I know CT and CL won't be. :p
     
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  15. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    We're not predictable, we're just obeying the programming of our secret robot overlords.
     
  16. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    Chapters 9 and 10...

    Well, we're past the midpoint so I figured things would start moving, and they did. Although I'm a bit confused as to where they're going. Luckily the chemistry between Cal and Min is getting a little better, as they seem to have finally decided that they're an item, and luckily they were rarely alone together in this chunk, so the surrounding craziness kept it interesting.

    Four major things happened here. And I feel a need to outline them using bullet points, so I guess that means Crusie is starting to methodically pull the strands together - although I'll come back to why she's confusing me.

    1. We have a sequence where Min, Bonnie, and Liza debate the merits of the assorted theories of Romance being debated - Cynthie's psychotic psychoanalysis about love being totally predictable given certain inputs, Bonnie's idea that fairy tale love is real, and Tony and Liza's chaos theory of utter chance. So, we've set up three overly-simplistic explanations, and I'm guessing this was done so overtly for the purpose of alerting the audience that all three are going to be shot down. That worries me, because that requires shooting down Bonnie's fairy-tale romance, and I'm guessing that means bad things for her and Roger (who are both nice people)...but in fairness those two are moving WAAAAY too fast. Anyhow...

    2. Cal gets roped into going to dinner with Min's parents. This provided a great "Hell Yeah!" moment when he shot down her mother's ridiculous obsession with her weight, her dad's interrogation about his financial stability, and their mutual lack of interest in anything their daughter said. He played them like fiddles, and seeing Mommy Dearest shot down was fun.

    3. The scene then gets immediately reversed for a dinner with Cal's parents - which we knew was coming because awesome-nephew Harry had set it up earlier. But still, doing these as back-to-back mirror image scenes was weird. Cal's snooty rich parents are worse than Min's - they both seem intent on trolling him about not joining the family business ten years ago (Really? Ten years of this garbage? Get over it, people!). Of course, Min returns the favor by ripping them as new one and flat out asserts that he would have been nuts to join the family law firm because they clearly showed favoritism to his older brother and never would have let him rise (also the brother is pretentiously named "Reynolds" and seems incapable of going by "Rey"). Min one-ups Cal by actually storming out and going to the kitchen to have ice cream with Harry (who, in fairness, is much better company than anyone else in this world). She also seems to think this would all offend Cal - which is weird seeing as he did the same thing to her folks the previous night. But of course it doesn't, he was worried that his parents scared her away (also stupid), and his apparently-horrifed sister-in-law really thought the whole thing was such a riot that she offered Cal $100,000 to marry Min (because she would make weekly-dinners more entertaining). Also - while we're on the subject of the sister in law, Bink, the way this woman is described keeps making me think something is really wrong with her. She's thin, wispy, pale, brittle, and stoic - she clearly is a far more normal person than the other Morrisseys but the author is taking great pains to emphasize how beaten-down she is. Seriously, somebody PLEASE give Bink a cheeseburger.

    4. And finally our villains show back up with Cynthie ordering David to go to Min's house, buy her a snowglobe, and kiss her without permission. Spoiler alert: This goes about as well as you think it would - probably worse, given that Min's new cat scratches the heck out of David, breaks the snowglobe, and Min slices her finger open cleaning up the broken glass. Also during the mess he implied he wanted to marry her, have kids near-immediately, and sees her as a good potential mother. What a moron. The attempted kiss happens right at the end of Chapter 10, but just based on the first few words of Chapter 11 I heard, it's not going to end well.

    So, that's where we are. The action is picking up, and we're clearly on the downslope to the climax - but one thing is really puzzling me. Our primary villain, Cynthie, is looking increasingly desperate and pathetic. I'm really not sure if there's anything left that she or David could do to upset the apple cart - including revealing $10,000 the terms of David's original bet with Cal. At this point, Min is openly considering sleeping with Cal just to spite David anyway. She already thinks they have a $10 bet on Cal getting her into bed, and she now wants Cal to win said bet, so costing David $10,000 at this point would be extra motivation. Hence, that means one of two things is going to happen. Either...

    A: Cynthie is ten times crazier than I thought and is going to do something truly horrifying.
    B: The climactic plot twist is NOT going to be delivered by Cynthie.

    I'm trying to decide how I feel about Option B. Cynthie has been set up the whole time as the paramount villain, but we also all know that there's another ticking time bomb - Min's sister's upcoming wedding. If something blows up at the wedding that drives Cal and Min apart, that would be interesting but doesn't really give us the "Min puts Cynthie in her place" moment that I think we're all waiting for. I'm also thinking that the clearly-doomed wedding is probably also going to be Cal's opportunity to somehow save the day at the end. So, I guess I'll stop trying to get ahead of the plot.

    Oh - one last thing - and I'd be interested in what @Cave Troll thinks here too - is it just me that thinks it's weird that Cal seems obsessed with using "round" as a positive descriptor for Min? Is that complimentary or not? I understand that the entire point of Min's character is that she's a tiny-bit overweight, which is I said was great up front, but really? "Round"? There's got to be a better word than that. Or is that how men who are into that actually think? I'm genuinely curious and confused on that - if we're going to overshare, I literally have no concept because I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum and have a long history of going for skinny girls that everyone else thinks are awkward or gangly (if my fiance ever reads this - no you're not awkward or gangly - I'm referencing my knowledge of past crushes trying to figure out if I've ever thought of "round" as a positive...nope...). But seriously, if I were dating someone like Min, I have a feeling she'd slap me in the face if I called her "round."

    So, that's that I guess...
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
  17. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    Sorry for not being more 'enthusiastic' or 'ranty' on this one. Tis the season for loneliness and slightly depressed. Hopefully I can make the next installment with more of those wonderfully creative quotes. :) Off watching Markiplier's playlist of him playing Octodad to get in a better mood cause it is hilarious. :D

    BetMeMeme.jpg




    This is way better than these last couple of chapters, at least there is conflict. :D

     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
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  18. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    @Commandante Lemming - "round" is generally not seen as a compliment, but my own husband regularly calls me a blob... :blowkiss: But round is probably better than chubby. A blob is just funny :supergrin:(I'm only a size 12, so nothing over the top)

    For myself, I take it according to whether the person meant it as a compliment or an insult. Truth is, you tell someone enough times that being fat makes you pretty, you're gonna start to see it as a good thing. I used to wish I had whiter skin, curlier hair, and hair that wasn't black. Then I grew up in England where everyone envied my tan, and wished they had my beautiful straight black hair :nosleep:

    I'd still prefer a bit of a wave to my hair, but over the years I ceased to see my physical traits as a bad thing, thanks to constantly being told how good I have it. Social opinion does have a rather big influence.

    But I'm about as easy-going as they come. I know my sister would not take kindly to being called a "blob" no matter how it's meant lol.
     
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  19. MelFyre

    MelFyre New Member

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    I just came upon this thread today and I am loving it!

    As a general note in regards to plotting with romance : for the most part I feel like the author ( well the ones I read anyway ) usually take the main relationship to the point where they convince the reader - just before the climax - that there is no way in hell that the main pair will end up together. Crazy crises, emotional or even physical betrayal, etc. Granted my preference is PNR but I've dabbled in all romances throughout my reading history.

    As for @Commandante Lemming asking about 'round' as a positive descriptor - I've never felt so when it comes to describing body types. With most romances it seems that the author wants the reader to like the heroine and 'round' is such a specific descriptor that it puts a distinct image in the reader's mind vs more ambiguous terms that let the reader imagine a bit and put their own twist on the character ( examples that come to mind that work better are words such as soft, plump, full-figured and so on ). Round immediately puts a specific body type in my head. Not that a round body is a bad body ( because I can hear that argument coming up ) but that it sets a very distinct image in the forefront.

    But this is all my take and I'm definitely an amateur.
     
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  20. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    11 and 12.

    Well, the good news is we have action and things are moving. This was actually the first time since Week 2 that I was able to listen to both chapters all the way through without feeling the need to break it into two sections for the sake of my sanity. Part of that is a function of the fact that Chapter 11 was really short, and that I've figured out how to speed up the playback on Audible, but I still didn't lose interest.

    Incompetent David seems to have been well and truly disposed of, although he's going to keep trying - if only because Cynthie won't let him stop - but seeing as Min almost maced Cal thinking he might be David, I think that threat is done. Also, Cal came over the next night after the whole David mess, things got kissy in hurry - and Call was smart enough to find the tie David purposefully left, interrogate Min about how it got there, and then have it delivered back to David so that he couldn't come back for it. Yay Cal - you're finally doing things right! Insisting on personally sending the tie back was probably the best thing Cal has done in the whole book.

    Of course, this brings us back to our villains...and Cynthie is growing increasingly impatient with David's incompetence (and frankly I don't blame her, the guy has all the charm of a plague-infested porcupine - and he's almost as bad at being a minion as he is at being a boyfriend). Anyhow, Cynthie being Cynthie, she has another screwy plan to try and cause chaos. She knows Min, Cal, and their friends are all going out to dinner at Emilio's - and she wants to make Cal jealous. Of course, in her mind, nothing could make people more jealous than the knowledge that their exes are having sex - and seeing as she's a relationship "expert", she knows that people who've ACTUALLY just had sex behave differently than people who haven't. So, therefore, she concludes that she and David must have sex in order to pull off this con.

    [​IMG]

    So, we've now established that Cynthie is in fact crazier than we thought she was, has even fewer ethics than we thought she did, and is so deluded that she deserves a room at Arkham Asylum next to the Joker. Actually, she'd make a decent comic villain - which I'm not sure is good or bad seeing as I'm reading a romantic comedy.

    Their plot goes about as planned - Cal and Min see them, concluded they're shtupping each other, and debate sending them a bottle of wine so they get drunk, leave, and go back to bed. However, dinner doesn't go quite as planned, as Liza convinces Cal to sing in public (which he never does) in exchange for leaving him alone - and he sings Min's favorite Elvis song, which gets Min thinking about the fact that she loves Cal too much for him to leave her, and so she gets up and storms out. They proceed to have a big fight out on the curb and don't leave together...which rightly freaks out Cynthie who explains it will make their relationship stronger.

    Min and Bonnie then proceed to have a long talk later that night about what they want in relationships and the fact that they can actually have their fairy tal endings because both of them actually want realistic, achievable fantasies. Bonnie is smart. Be like Bonnie.

    Also - thank you Crusie for sliding me the worldbuilding theory that I need to conceptualize the rest of the plot...I see what you did there...you and I play the same games, I just blow things up more.

    We have a couple tense days until the weekend Little League game, which Min still goes to because she's developed a bond with Cal's nephew Harry. Cal's idiot brother Reynolds (Harry's dad) actually shows up, and proceeds to make an ass of himself by berating his son from the stands every time he makes a bad play. This annoys everyone, including Cal - who starts storming into the stands for a confrontation, but Min heads it off by aggressively berating Reynolds for being a hideous parent before Cal gets to him. Cal manages to calm down, and Bink (Reynold's wife, Harry's mom) has the sense to get Reynolds the hell out of there so that thy can have a long talk at home and Reynolds stops yelling at the kid. This of course leaves Cal and Min to get little Harry home - so they treat him to a bratwurst and some doughnuts (he throws them back up).

    Oh, and Tony and Liza broke up.

    After she and Cal drop Harry off, Min decides it's finally time to clear up the whole bet thing and have the "determine the relationship" talk with Cal. Good for her...but then she just implies that she knows what Cal is hiding instead of coming right out with it. Cal totally misinterprets what she's saying and spills his guts that he and Bink had an emotional affair years ago (not physical) and that he's always been in love with Bink and that's why he leaves women (until Min, who actually makes him forget about Bink).

    [​IMG]

    So, that just happened...

    Actually, I kind of buy this as an explanation. It makes a lot of sense. That said, it's totally out of left field. Did I miss some foreshadowing there? I mean, Cal does a lot for Harry, but I figured that was because his bond with Harry was less complicated than every other bond in his life...not because he's been secretly in love with Harry's mom all these years.

    Anyway, that was enough to get Cal and Min back on track by the end of the chapter, and having looked ahead at the beginning of the next one, it's probably the prelude to the steamy, cathartic sex scene that we're supposed to be waiting for.

    Still, I keep wondering how Crusie is going to bring this all home. Our villains have been thoroughly shown up, and I really, really doubt their ability to give us a major obstacle. We have the doomed wedding, but I'm not sure about that either. I'm really starting to worry that Crusie is going to kill off Bink - which is horrible of me - but she's such a tragic character that her life is either going to have to improve or end by the end of the book. But I think that might be too dark, and I hope it doesn't happen.

    I'll give Crusie props on actually delivering some big dramatic set pieces - now let's see if she can bring it home for a finish that actually works.
     
  21. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    So with my crazy week, I'm playing catchup - and you're right last week that Cynthie is the only one doing stuff! Although they fixed that a little this week.
     
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  22. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    Also - looking back over my review, I'm wondering what it means that Bink is setting off my "dead character walking" alarm, given that I'm in a genre where that's probably not going to happen. Yeah, her description is such that, if this were Star Trek, she's either taking a phaser to the head or getting assimilated into the Borg collective by the end of the episode. But this isn't Star Trek, and given all the talk about us being in the "light/fluffy" side of the romance continuum, I feel like there's sort of an implicit subgenre promise that we're not going to see anyone's severed head on a pike.

    What's the genre-appropriate equivalent? Is she going to divorce Reynolds and face Cal with a choice he never thought he'd actually get? That would be high drama...

    That or I've just been binge-watching Marvel's Jessica Jones too much, and I've conditioned myself to think that anyone who looks helpless is about to eat it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
  23. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView

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    London, UK
    I can't get over the fact that there's a character called Bink, to be honest. Min was stretching it for me...
     
  24. Commandante Lemming

    Commandante Lemming Contributor Contributor

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    Yeah, there are a few nicknames that are weird - I thin Bink's actual name is Elizabeth but whatever.
     
  25. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    Sorry fell asleep while rendering, took a lot longer for a few extra minutes. :p But the Rants are back baby. :D

     
    VynniL and Commandante Lemming like this.

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