1. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    What are these sleeves called?

    Discussion in 'Research' started by Friedrich Kugelschreiber, Apr 30, 2020.

    I need to know what this kind of sleeve is called, or how to describe it at the very least. I couldn't find anything online. Deep sleeves? Or are they considered cuffs? It's a very recognizable design; maybe too recognizable to actually have a name.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Historical Science

    Historical Science Contributor Contributor

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    Bell sleeve?
     
  3. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Wizard's sleeve?
     
  4. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Trumpet sleeves?
     
  5. Seven Crowns

    Seven Crowns Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    Funnel sleeves of a houppelande.
     
  6. Dogberry's Watch

    Dogberry's Watch Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2023

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    Bell sleeve is what I found, but something that ornate would only be worn by someone in the nobility or wealthy. Also probably less form fitting as the shaping under stuff didn't start till much, much later, if that's the type of garment you're using.
     
  7. dbesim

    dbesim Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    That dress seems pretty awkward. But I’d go with “bell sleeves” or describe how very wide they are over the rims.
     
  8. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    @Seven Crowns, I'm not sure if houppelande describes what I'm after. Aren't they more baggy? I don't know if the pic in the OP is a houppelande or not, but in the writing, I'm going for a pre-Raphaelite vibe; something like this:

    [​IMG]
    I found bell sleeve, too, but the thing that made me wonder was the fact that it only became popular among the laity in the 1500's, whereas the type of sleeve I'm referring to was apparently popular among women much earlier. Does "hanging sleeve" sound right?
    Historical anachronisms are not a problem, since I'm writing a fantasy. The person wearing the gown is an enchantress, so I guess the gown would be form-fitting (?) but I know nothing about fashion.
     
  9. Lazaares

    Lazaares Contributor Contributor

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    Wizard's sleeve. Though considering the confusion around it I am pretty sure you could get away with an own term for it.
     
  10. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I think the most common term for these is 'trumpet sleeves' but I haven't done an intense amount of research.

    This link makes it clear, however, that these sleeves would only be worn by women of high status, as they clearly aren't designed for work and are impossible to 'roll up.'
    https://www.blackravenarmoury.co.uk/product/trumpet-sleeve-underdress-klara/
     
  11. Pazcore1

    Pazcore1 New Member

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    Kimono sleeve perhaps - have a google?
     
  12. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer Contest Winner 2023

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    Izabella Pitcher of Prior Attire would know. You could comment on this video and ask her what they're called.

    Though I'd advise you not to mention it's for a book you're writing. She does consultation on historical dress for a living, and if it seems your questions might turn into more than a one off, she might refer you to the place on her website where she lists her schedule of fees.

    It may seem harsh, but none of us can afford to give away our work product to random strangers for nothing.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
  13. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    Thanks! I'll be sure to check it out.
     
  14. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    V&A museum online, or Wallace Collection?

    [history of fashion]
     
  15. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    Flared sleeves?
    Kinda like flare leg pants, but on a shirt. o_O
     
  16. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Gauntlet cut?
    Kinda like boot cut pants, but on a shirt. o_O
     
  17. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

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    I would go bell as @Historical Science suggested. I found the lovely word 'kirtle' archaic during the search.
     
  18. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer Contest Winner 2023

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    The overdress with the flared sleeves would be the bliant. Kirtle goes underneath.
     
  19. jim onion

    jim onion New Member

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    I would use something like "flared" or "draping" or "cascading" or "billowing".

    I guess I'm questioning if you really need to know what they're called. Perhaps you're writing historical fiction, in which case the term would be important to use. But I've found describing *around* something to be a good trick.
     
  20. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    Yeah. I just wanted to see if there's an obvious name for it that I'm missing, which doesn't appear to be the case.
    I've seen them called hanging sleeves in more place than one, so I will use that. But this thread was very helpful, because I learned a lot of new words for medieval clothing. "Bliat," "houppelande," etc. What outlandish names are these, eh?
     
    jim onion likes this.
  21. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Morgue sleeves.

    All they had back then were candles.

    Do the maths.

    T'is but a joke!
     
  22. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

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    so... my first question would be what culture you're from/writing for.
    In the comments, we are all from clearly different places with varying names for the same thing (where I'm from and growing up, these are called "bell sleeves"). I'm assuming all of the other variations come from different places (Kimono sleeve, trumpet sleeve, wizard sleeve, etc.)
     
  23. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    I'm American, writing European/medieval fantasy.
     
  24. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I was just making stuff up, mostly trying to be funny (Trumpet sleeves and later Gauntlet sleeves). So factor that in as well.
     
  25. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

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    [​IMG]
    Caption for this reads: "Figure of Grammatica showing the trumpet-sleeved bliaut characteristic of the later 12th century, from the Hortus Deliciarum, c. 1180"

    the bliaut (French) gets more ornately decorated/styled later on in history, but the sleeves are described as "flaring" "trumpet" shaped and, according to the "Leading Authority on English Costume" (Willet and Cunningham), "the sleeves, now close fitting, were "bell-shaped" at the wrist or, the "lower portion [hung] to form a pendulous cuff which might be rolled up for action" "

    sources: wikipedia
     

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