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  1. Thorn Cylenchar

    Thorn Cylenchar Senior Member

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    What makes good horror?

    Discussion in 'Horror' started by Thorn Cylenchar, Aug 24, 2020.

    I know this is a really open-ended opinion question, but to you, what makes good horror? What needs to be present for you to consider it 'Horror'? Is it the creatures, the setting, the psychological dread?
     
  2. Seven Crowns

    Seven Crowns Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    Helplessness.

    As soon as the characters fight back, the horror ends and action begins. Genres switch. That's what makes the horror genre so tricky. The characters need agency (they need to act on the plot) but they can't stop what's coming. If the horror can be averted, then it never really was horror. It was just a nuisance. Though the characters might get lucky if it passes them by. That's okay. (Lovecraft did this lots.) If the horror ends, it should be because the MC ends. He's consumed by the horror and becomes a part of it.

    As a for instance, take "The Fly" with Jeff Goldblum. The first section is horror. JG is rotting, turning into something horrible, and doesn't know why. Even when he figures it out, he can't stop it. When Gina Davis is kidnapped and the creepy boss shows up to fight JG, the horror is done because now it's just sci-fi action. Note that the POV switches at the end to the creepy boss and Gina Davis. They're afraid of being killed/absorbed, but they win against this threat. (The creepy boss is the story's hero, by the way. When you look at what he sacrificed, he had the true character arc.)

    As another example, in a story, let's say I have a rash and go to the doctor. I'm grossed out (and so is he) but I get some cream. The rash disappears. <-- That's not horror.

    Now in story #2, let's say I go to the same doctor and get the same cream. This time it does no good. The rash spreads. More cream. It keeps getting worse. I'm helpless! Now I notice it's on the furniture. It's climbing the walls. I burn down the house and die in flames. Epilogue: A new house goes up. The new owners point out a strange blight spreading across the lawn. Their little kid is walking through it.<-- That's horror.

    Most horror books I read fail at this at some point. I guess they choose to. They switch genres at the end and the hero escapes. Kind of gung-ho, and that's okay, but they're not pure horror.

    Oh, read this book. It's pretty short, just a novella. It nails horror perfectly:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2020
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  3. Thorn Cylenchar

    Thorn Cylenchar Senior Member

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    I can definitely see that happening, the transition from horror to action. But to a certain extent, isn't that expected for most horror stories? A defeated protagonist who just gives up, lays down and dies is pretty boring, so fighting back(or at least trying to) would seem to be a pretty logical extension of the story.

    Seems like a tricky balancing point that is easy to screw up.
     
  4. Davi Mai

    Davi Mai Banned

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    I reckon there are a few types that are called horror, but not all of them are. Depends on the definition of course. (edit - sorry, I kinda immediately thought about films rather than books, but some of this still applies?)

    1. Slashers. They've got thrills and jump scares, but are rather silly and exploitative. eg. A girl in just her undies goes down into the basement to see what the noise is. Gets stabbed between the boobs. Yawn.
    2. Gratuitous violence and torture - like "Saw" - I can't stand them.
    3. Classic horror like Dracula....they're cool, but not really scary?
    4. These recent things like The Conjuring, The Nun, Insidious... they all seem very samey. Cleverer than the Slashers and the Saw stuff, but very predictable. Yawn.
    5. Zombies - not horror at all, but good fun :)
    6. Real horror to me, is something real. That people have experienced and is absolutely horrifying. War stories could be called horror. But even closer to home, when someone asks me what a horrific event might be, I don't think about serial killers or being chased by zombies, or getting locked up by a sadistic madman. I think about the scene that would unfold if I ran over the neighbor's toddler with my car.
    THAT is horror.

    Stephen King wrote good horror earlier on in his career I reckon. Pet Semetary comes to mind. The poor guy trying to bring back his dead son. Also, Cujo, the horror of your kid dying of dehydration in a car because there's a rabid dog that would rip him to shreds outside..I mean...wow. That's scary. A chainsaw isn't. Unless you're a tree?
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
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  5. Dogberry's Watch

    Dogberry's Watch Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023 Contest Winner 2022

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    Along similar lines to what others have said, real horror to me isn't the spooky stuff (although I avoid haunted houses like a pro), but the feelings leftover from the build up of that horror. I personally think it would be an interesting story if a protagonist tried to escape but couldn't, and couldn't fight back for whatever reason, so by the end, they just give up and the horror consumes them.

    Those slasher films are great because they're campy, and some of the religious horror is truly something I can't watch, but I can read it sometimes... To me the most horrifying is what people can do to each other. It doesn't even have to be a time of violence, just knowing there are people out there who genuinely enjoy the suffering of others is the most uncomfortable thing for me.

    I was going to use the second season of American Horror Story as an example of the kind of thing that makes sense to me for horror, but it's really just the serial killer storyline because Sarah Paulson's character is never really able to escape the torture of what the killer does to her. Mentally or physically. And asylums creep me out.

    Edit: a book I'd consider horror: Battle Royale, the original Japanese story the Hunger Games is "not" based on.
     
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  6. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    See Alien vs Aliens (Alien 2).
     
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  7. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

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    This is really something to think about.... I used to be terrified of the Freddie Kruger movies. Now i love Nightmare on Elm Street. Its funny to me.
    Jeepers Creepers terrified me.
    the first 2 Final Destination movies scared me.
    Paranormal Activity scared me... Yet Haunting on Hill House did not.
    Resident Evil (the videogames) scared me, but other Zombie flicks do not.

    There is this movie, i cant remember what its called but it starts with an S (i think) and its about cave diving (its NOT call "spelunking") ETA: its called "Sanctum." No monsters or killers or anything... Just cave diving gone wrong. The team of scientists and explorers Misread the weather forecast. A storm comes through while they are in the cave and their only exit is flooded and the cave is flooding fast so they have to find another way out. There is one instance where there are 2 divers and the womans oxygen tank fails and they are sharing the one oxygen thing passing the mouth piece back and forth but its not helping. The woman panics and tries to take the whole apparatus, but the man wants to live too, so he pushes her away, and you see her drown. That scared the shit out of me! I kid you not, i had nightmares and will not watch that movie again to this day.
    I guess it is the sense of helplessness in that one that got me.

    Idk about the other ones i listed. Especially the videogame one because you can LITERALLY control your outcome, yet it still scared me.

    Fear is weird and horror is weird and im still trying to figure it all out.:geek:
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
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  8. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    The original Resident Evil scared me - until I found the grenade launcher. It's kinda hard to be scared when you're wandering around a carrying a giant-ass bazooka.
     
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  9. Davi Mai

    Davi Mai Banned

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    That's such a good comparison!
     
  10. Aldarion

    Aldarion Active Member

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    It is the feeling of helplessness. Basically, situation in which character cannot fight back, cannot do anything but try to run and/or hide. Like that "raptors in the kitchen" scene in Jurassic Park, or much of the Alien movie. It helps when the threat is obviously enormous, yet at the same time unknown, alien - you do not know what to expect, how to fight back, and that lack of knowledge alone can be horror material.
     
  11. cosmic lights

    cosmic lights Contributor Contributor

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    I'm sick to death of zombies and supernatural stuff because it all becomes very samey. Slasher films I avoid like the plague because I find them quite cringey and riddled with cliches and characters making obviously stupid decisions example:
    Character knows their life is in danger. The lights go out because everything in horror must be done in the dark. They hear a creepy noise or a creepy voice call there name.
    If that were mean, after crapping my pants, I'd be legging it...I don't care where, just away. BUT NO...this character will investigate said noises, usually aimed with only a flashlight.
    I can't bare it. I watch them movies on Halloween for fun but never take them seriously.

    What frightens me is the unhinged human mind - The Shining still creeps me out. Anything that prays on psychological fears. The character doesn't have to have a common fear for me like a fear of spiders, clowns, the dark or small spaces. They just have to have a crippling fear I can relate to. I don't relate to the same fear but I don't relate to all those feelings. I enjoy seeing a supernatural entity use someone's fear, secrets, doubts and shames to break them rather than creepy noises. To me that is scary. Something that knows you. Knows things only you know and threatens to out you. Seeing a character overcome those things for fall to those things is fun to me. The truth is, no horror film has ever really frightened me.
     
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  12. Dalantri

    Dalantri Member

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    Very apt points!

    I agree that the genre changes when/if the MC becomes a hero. What makes horror ‘horror’ is that is DOESN’T end. It ends one cycle when it consumes its current victim, but then lies in wait until a new victim comes.
     
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  13. A_Jones

    A_Jones Member

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    I have read few books considered to be in the horror genre. I read The Amityville Horror, House, The Talisman (which I thought was more Fantasy), The Oath. For me it is anything that takes a concept and turns it into a psychological emotional challenge. This can be a manifestation of metaphor or a realistic sequence.

    I LOVE dark fantasy. Which is not considered horror most of the time. Del Toror gives me my favorite thrills but I am a big fan of Garth Nix as well. I prefer to write Dark fantasy too. When you can take a character's insecurity and force them to confront it by manifesting it as a demon, or fairy that tears them to pieces. Ahh yesssssss!
     
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  14. Thorn Cylenchar

    Thorn Cylenchar Senior Member

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    Agreed- zombies and vampires have been done to death(haha).
    I had read an article a few years after the great recession that was about how in times of social/economic turmoil, zombie films and stories tend to become super prevalent.
    Though if you want a good retake of the zombie story, try 'The Girl with All the Gifts". It's not a 'horror' story as such, but it is actually scary because it is something I could see happening(especially given the coronovirus pandemic).
     
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  15. Thorn Cylenchar

    Thorn Cylenchar Senior Member

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    I'd go so far as say Alien vs any other movie in the series.

    I saw Jurassic Park when I was in 6th grade (then had to drive home at night in the heavy rain through a heavily wooded area). The Raptors in the kitchen scene definitely featured in my nightmares that night.
     
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  16. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    I dunno... Alien Resurrection was pretty horrific.
     
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  17. Not the Territory

    Not the Territory Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    We only send the best of the dumbest into outer space. Same could be said for Prometheus.

    Edit: On that note, and to address the OP question, I find the best horror occurs when horrible things happen to people in spite of their preparedness and intelligence. When our party decides NOT to split up, when our crew follows containment protocol, when our hero brings a weapon into the spoopy room (woman in black). When I'm sitting in the seat thinking: "I couldn't have thought of a better way to handle that situation," that is when my skin is crawling.

    2nd edit to add relevant scene:

    That guy's a biologist. Apparently.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
  18. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

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    I could never get in to the Alien franchise. It scared me for a whole other reason.... They look like bugs.
    I was terrified of bugs as a kid. That movie with the giant spider that hitched a ride to america on a banana... That one harry potter movie.... The scene in The Mist where the guy had spiders all in his body...

    Alien just never seemed appealing. Im more of a Predator person. I like all of those movies. Even watched Alien v Predator ONLY because Predator was in it.
     
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  19. A_Jones

    A_Jones Member

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    Alien did not scare me. It thrilled me but not scare. I am a sucker for creature features. But I get true fear from ghost movies. When they show them all messed up and they have nutso horrifying origins. Gods I love it though.
    My friend thinks the movie Twister is a horror movie. I dont think natural disaster movies qualify as horror.
     
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  20. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

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    Man vs anything, in my opinion, can be a horror. Man vs creature, man vs paranormal, man vs self (psychological horror), man vs man, man vs object, man vs nature. A thriller can be a horror, right? (Honest question...):superthink:
    A roller coaster is a thrill ride, but people are still afraid of them... It goes back to the whole being helpless thing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
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  21. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Do you watch Man vs Food?
     
  22. Cephus

    Cephus Contributor Contributor

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    Horror needs to be scary. Today, a lot of people write or make movies that are more about gore than horror. It's just gross. I have no interest in gross. I want it to be scary and last long after you put the book down or walk out of the theater. If you forget all about it 10 minutes later, it's not good horror. It's got to be visceral and psychological. That doesn't get written well much these days.
     
  23. J.T. Woody

    J.T. Woody Book Witch Contributor

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    no idea what that is...
    *googles it*

    cooking? or am i looking at the wrong thing
     
  24. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Nope - that's the right show.
     
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  25. marshipan

    marshipan Contributor Contributor

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    Lack of control, sense of dread, not trusting your own mind, impending doom, strong tension, and enemies that are outside the normal boundaries of man (serial killers, supernatural creatures, imagined things, etc).
     

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