1. Alan Aspie

    Alan Aspie Banned Contributor

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    Final Draft? Celtx? Highland2? MovieMagic? FadeIn? WriterDuet? AmazonStoryWriter? Highland? Slugline

    Discussion in 'Writing Software and Hardware' started by Alan Aspie, Aug 15, 2019.

    I'm planning to train and execute some scriptwriting.

    I want to start with a program which is made for that purpose.

    I have never used, not even tried any of those. And now I must choose on to start with.

    I want to concentrate my focus in writing, not testing programs. So... dear forumites, I'm asking you if you have experiences with these and what kind of?

    I'd like to keep the tone of this thread in general area so that anyone interested about this topic can find this useful.

    I plan to start with radio plays and try stage plays and tv scripts later. Maybe Youtube later.

    I know that Final Draft is the standard. But is it best tool to start?

    Does it disturb or help if program has plenty of tools and options in it?

    What can you tell me and other beginners who plan to work hard and go forward as fast as they can?
     
  2. Martin Beerbom

    Martin Beerbom Senior Member

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    I don't write screenplays (yet?), though I have toyed with the idea. So take everything I say with a big grain of salt.

    Here're my advices:

    1) If you have Scrivener, try that first. It has templates and functions for screenplay formatting. If you have it anyway, it's a good place to start. If you don't, well, it's not that expensive and is a writer's Swiss Army App of Writing anyway.

    2) I looked around for screenplay writing apps some time ago. Admittedly, I did not check everything on your list (some of them I didn't even know existed, as they didn't show up in searches or lists ... which makes me wary to use them ...), and I quickly settled on Fade In Pro, if I were to employ something like that. Now, there's not much rational reasoning (beside that their price point and price/feature development over time seemed reasonable) behind my choice. Let me just say that their web presence rubbed me just the right way, very similar to the way Scrivener and Literature & Latte rubbed me way back when. (Just to mention it, Final Draft rubbed me exactly the wrong way, in particular how its features and prices changed over time. That may not mean that it is good or bad software, just that it's that way for me.)

    Just for the standards question: Both Scrivener and Fade In can im-/export a Final Draft file.
     
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  3. Martin Beerbom

    Martin Beerbom Senior Member

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    That thread led me to check out screenplay software again. Not because I need it right now, but just because I like writing software.

    On the Mac, I found Slugline, which is a really slick, polished, minimal screenplay writer that has some nifty tools hidden away that helps you with the simple necessities automatically like magic (like formatting, autocorrecting essentials, remembering characters etc.) It costs ~$40, the iOS version ~$20.
     
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  4. Shenanigator

    Shenanigator Has the Vocabulary of a Well-Educated Sailor. Contributor

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    Pretty sure most of the working screenwriters I know use Final Draft, but I can ask around and find out why. If I had to guess, it's because it's easier to collaborate when everyone's using the same thing. More than any other type of writing, at some point, others will be collaborating on the project in some way--whether it be as a team of writers or during shooting. You never want to be that person who's using different software that makes it difficult for people to work with you.

    So if you're going with something out of the norm of what most people use, read lots and lots of user product reviews to be sure there's true compatibility with what others might be using.

    I'll ask around about specifics, though.
     
  5. Martin Beerbom

    Martin Beerbom Senior Member

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    The collaboration thing may be... but I can tell you why people would not want to use Final Draft for everything. I downloaded the trial, and it's not a nice writing experience (for screenplays). It does not auto format (or at least it doesn't with the standard settings right after install, and I could not find a button to turn it on.)

    To hack down lots of dialog, with a bit of action in between, Slugline or Highland 2, to name just two examples, are infinitely more pleasant. You just type, and the program takes care of indenting and capitalization of character names, dialog, parenthetical, transitions etc. (These two are Mac only, but there are similar programs and cloud services for Win and Linux out there.)

    Final Draft doesn't do that, and still feels a lot more like a traditional word processor than a dedicated screenwriting tool. (Fade In does, too, and one of the reasons is that both of them are stuck in a single WYSIWYG file paradigm. Slugline and Highland 2 differentiate between an edit and a submission version, which means that they can skip page breaks, page headings, CONT'd etc. in the edit version that you do not need to care about while writing.)

    There are other things that rub me the wrong way and are indications that Final Draft is desparately trying to protect its market share and clings to traditional technology instead of innovating, such as:

    * Installer on the Mac (normally, apps are downloaded in a container and are just copied, even if they have involved online functions for cloud sharing and collaboration);
    * activation code and email registration even for the trial;
    * from what I have observed, paid upgrades with high frequency with little feature improvements;
    * rather expensive, with very little features (aside from the online and live collaboration) above cheaper alternatives (and, as mentioned, even lacking features);
    * pushes for additional content or services (templates, writing courses etc.)

    Sure, it's the standard, and you may be forced to get it when you start to work for a production team or studio that has standardized on it, but I wonder for how much longer (if they do not innovate more.) They surely do not have a file format stranglehold – everyone and their mum can produce and read Final Draft files. (Not Slugline, though, which is its biggest drawback. You still need another tool or online service – with all the danger that entails – to get to an .fdx file ... but it's the nicest writing experience for screenplays I have experienced so far. Highland 2 is very close, but there's still some attention on my side to make sure line spacing is right that Slugline just gets right automatically.)

    I can easily see a workflow where a lot is done with something else, and only switching to Final Draft when forced to (much like using Word only during the review phase for novels.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
  6. Alan Aspie

    Alan Aspie Banned Contributor

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    Thanks?

    Have you worked with it?

    That is a very good point. Thanks.

    All this is what I need. Thanks.
     
  7. Martin Beerbom

    Martin Beerbom Senior Member

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    Some revision, since I have played around with Slugline, Highland 2, and the trial versions of Fade In and Final Draft over the weekend:

    My recommendation if you just want to try to write a properly formatted screenplay by your lonesome is Highland 2. Slugline is a bit nicer for the simple formatting, but lacks tools I deem essential (which I only noticed when I spend some time with it). Such as (but not limited to) im-/exporters (can't make a Final Draft file with it), editing and revision tools (cannot even auto number scenes). You'll need additional tools along the way, and Highland 2 offers those, has an editor almost as good as Slugline, and is only ~$10 more than it, so it doesn't make much sense to get Slugline. IMO. Note that Highland 2 is Mac only right now. (Do not ask me about Windows apps.)

    As said, Final Draft and Fade In are not as nice to edit. They also do not offer many tools (when you're writing alone) that Highland 2 lacks.

    The thing Final Draft, Fade In, and the other cloud services offer (and that you won't get with other apps) are collaboration tools and services. And that's something that you need to clear up with your collaborators as there's significant lock-in with the specific app or service. IMO, it's not necessary to start working with (and paying their steeper price tag of) those apps just to learn them: they are sophisticated enough and similar to all those writing and word processor apps out there that you can use them when you need it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
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  8. Alan Aspie

    Alan Aspie Banned Contributor

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    My plan is this:

    1. Currently working hard to learn more about scriptwriting. (Now.)

    2. Writing a series of comic radio plays. This is how I plan to train scriptwriting. (This will happen soon. I have started writing raw material: ideaflies, structural work, character files....)

    3. Trying to sell that series. (I have been in contact with one major house.)

    4. After seeing what happens with radio play project, I want to try to learn scriptwriting for tv and video productions.

    5. If I learn and produce enough I try to sell something of it.

    So... It's learning by trying to do the real thing. And I'm really serious about this. I don't want to train myself to be just an author but multi format and multi genre writer.

    That major house uses Final Draft. That means that I must learn and use it later - no matter do I use some other software also or not. But I don't like to share my attention. So... If any software demands attention and some other does not, I am tempted to use the one that let's me keep my focus in just writing.

    I know I will use my normal writing software at the same time - at least in the beginning. (32" monitor. Supportive material on the right and left. The page I'm writing in the middle. Other things in another monitor or virtual table.)

    So... It starts to look like I might need two softwares:

    1. One software for intuitive working in early stages of production.
    2. Final Draft for co-operation with major players. (If and when I get there.)

    @Shenanigator
    @Martin Beerbom

    How does this sound?
     

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