1. rktho

    rktho Contributor Contributor

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    What would creatures that don't wear clothes find attractive? (answered)

    Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by rktho, Feb 28, 2017.

    In my book, all the characters are dragons. My dragons wear clothes, but only as a matter of practicality. For example, they carry pouches on rope belts to hold their money, they might wear a cloak or cape, they accessorize with rings, and sometimes they wear hats (ones that are designed to fit around their horns, of course. One type of hat is actually two things called horncaps that look like long fezzes that are slipped onto each horn.) The most clothing you'll see a dragon wear is battle armor. Their genitalia aren't externally visible, so they don't have to cover them up with undergarments or anything. It's not unusual for a dragon not to wear anything at all, even though they tend to have some kind of bag on them at all times. Humans use clothes in order to be fashionable or attractive. What do dragons use?
     
  2. Garnovski

    Garnovski New Member

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    I would tend to believe that fashion would extend to personalities in that case. For example, alternative trends from ruthlessness to clemency would make sense. A male dragon (I don't know if your dragons have genders, but let's say for the sake of the argument that they do) that leans towards the softer side of that scale could act cruelly on purpose to try to impress a female dragon that he finds attractive. Of course, there could also be a style factor on their accessories, and physical beauty would be a factor, but I don't see anything else a dragon could do to be more attractive.
     
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  3. Arcadeus

    Arcadeus Senior Member

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    Size/Strength/Horns might be some physical attributes.
    As for other possibilities- battle trophies or titles among dragons. Roth Zar, Destroyer of Palor, Fire of Darnak Mountain, yada yada etc.

    Maybe family lineage.
     
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  4. Quanta

    Quanta Senior Member

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    Gold and precious stones jewelery?
     
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  5. rktho

    rktho Contributor Contributor

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    Of course they have genders. Have you read a fantasy series where they're agender? What book is it?
     
  6. rktho

    rktho Contributor Contributor

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    If you saw a girl on the street you'd never seen before, you wouldn't really know her family lineage, would you?
    On the other hand, scars being attractive in males would be a good thing to put in. But females tend to lean more on personality than visuals. You don't see them looking at guys in bikinis or stuff like that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
  7. rktho

    rktho Contributor Contributor

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    Maybe...
     
  8. rktho

    rktho Contributor Contributor

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    Well, of course physical attributes would play into it. There's a reason being fat isn't considered attractive. But should I just rely more heavily on physical attributes in place of apparel? What if someone was trying to attract attention? They can't really change what they got.
     
  9. Arcadeus

    Arcadeus Senior Member

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    Are you trying to make them completely human in personality?

    Do you really think dragons would think eye-liner, piercings, or anything else of the sort is attractive?

    Lets say as a soldier, I meet a General's Grand-daughter, because I know of her last name. She would be more attractive a prospect to me, because there is that lineage.

    There could be something similar. Horn shapes, scale color, they could be unique to one's family. For example, all bronze dragons could come from the same lineage, but different families with-in are told apart typically by the shape of one's horns, also cross-breeding between different races of dragons could darken/lighten the color of the scales, but they would still be considered a part of the family that shows predominately in their scales.

    Have you figured out how the society/culture works for your dragon civilization?
     
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  10. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    You would if the family was hot-shot enough :cool:

    Very human. Do your dragons think the same way humans do?
     
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  11. texshelters

    texshelters Active Member

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    Sexy scales. Look at the animal kingdom for suggestions on what makes one animal attracted to another. Smell is an important attractant. Peace, Tex
     
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  12. rktho

    rktho Contributor Contributor

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    They aren't completely human, but I want some kind of analogue. If it comes to it, though, I could just rely on physical attributes.
    My dragons races are like this:
    There are different species, but they're too physiologically different from each other to be considered attractive between species. (A Khrizan wouldn't find a Vrakardian attractive; that'd be on a slightly higher level than bestiality. Assuming they could even breed, what would their offspring look like? There'd be problems.) But in different species there's some diversity. Vrakardians are the most diverse, being physically marked according to tribe (like, some have black stripes and some have brown mottles.) There's some interracial breeding there and mixed-race Vrakardians can claim rights to both tribes. But generally they tend to frown on interracial marriage. My protagonist species (the one I focus most on), the Khrizans, have different attributes like eye color, horn shape, tail shape and stuff. That's like different-colored hair and stuff to them. Different dragons have their tastes in which attributes among those are most desirable. But racially, they're based in shades of green. Generally, they're categorized as pine, avocado, and lime. But it's really more of a spectrum, and viewing shade as anything more than superficial is considered prejudiced.
    The reason I'm asking is because I have a character who's a huge creep.
     
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  13. NoGoodNobu

    NoGoodNobu Contributor Contributor

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    It's difficult for me to understand why dragons would wear clothes. Wouldn't cloaks get in the way of their wings/flying? How much fine motor skills can they possess with their claws & talons to fasten/unfasten these articles?

    What purpose could hats serve them, and wouldn't they be prone to being constantly lost in the flight or the flurry of wind at another dragons take off?

    How are they weaving these fabrics or sculpting these hats considering their anatomical structures?

    You have to remember that articles of clothing for people were first & foremost practical—keep our delicate skin protected from sun exposure, keep our bodies warm, protect our feet & bodies against rough terrain etc. Some hats kept our heads warm—some hats kept the sun out of our eyes or our faces. They evolved out of practicality later into fashionability (sometimes retaining some function, often just aesthetically pleasing).

    Humans are highly fragile, sensitive creatures compared to most of the animal kingdom, so our survival depended highly on innovation. However our anatomy allows us unique dexterity for nimble delicacy & finnesse.

    I can't quite comprehend why dragons would wear humaesque type clothing, as they would have no actual benefits & seem to be complicated at best to utter unrealistic in being able to make/wear them.

    I can perhaps imagine them forging jewelry in some capacity, but how intricately is another question.

    To be honest, even with human or higher form intelligence, I still think most of their mating rituals or attractions would be rooted in animal behaviors & instincts. In a lot of ways, even human ways of attraction are rooted in these fundamental instincts. Typical male displays of strength & prowess—impressing the female & demonstrating they can provide & protect for her & potential offspring, or else physical traits that denote good or healthy genes worthy of being passed on.

    More believably than clothes, perhaps they could plate their scales in precious metals they acquire—demonstrating their skill in obtaining precious metals & potentially possessing a correlating large hoard; displaying their skill in keeping & protecting their hoards & plated scales from other rival males; and making themselves more visibly alluring to the females they are attempting to court.

    I just don't know about hats & cloaks & armor—maybe if you elaborated on your dragons it'd make more sense?
     
  14. Dnaiel

    Dnaiel Senior Member

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    Be careful not to project human biology onto other animals. Whether or not dragons would even enjoy sex is up in the air. That an organism has to enjoy sex to do the deed is a myth. For many, many animals, sex is a traumatic experience, often involving injury and sometimes death. This will impact the very nature of attraction. For dragons, the visual, physical characteristics might inform them on selecting a mate, and very likely an action like flying close to a cliff without hitting it as a demonstration of their agility and other traits. Some birds do this, flying around tall buildings repeatedly to show the ladies what their bodies can do.

    Dragons that are intellectual may have more in common with humans in some respects, but they're still going to have other senses to rely on. If they have good olfaction, then their scent might be a primary indicator of attractiveness. The quality of their scales, shining them in a noon sun as they bask could be an option. Their own hoarded goods would be a great example, too. Kinda like flashing a wallet.
     
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  15. rktho

    rktho Contributor Contributor

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    My dragons are anthrodragons, meaning that they walk upright like humans, but their feet look different (they aren't flat) they have longer necks, long-snouted faces, large wings on their backs that they can fold something like fans, tails, teeth, two horns, pointed ears, and claws in place of fingernails (So don't expect them to peel an orange as well as a human, although they could easily make an incision for you to start with if you have stubby nails and need help.) They have a joint on their shin like a backwards knee, under their actual knee. They have three toes and another on their heel. They walk on those four claws and the sole of their foot. Their toes do not touch the ground except at the clawtips. And, they're twelve feet tall. So, bigger than humans.

    Obviously they wouldn't wear hats while flying. If they needed to take them on a journey they'd carry them in a bag. They tend to leave them at home, though.
    The Khrizan emperor wears a red cape the same way human rulers wear a crown. Some of my characters use cloaks to disguise themselves. The police uniform consists of a chestplate and belt for a sword, as well as a helmet. (The helmet would have a strap so it wouldn't fall off in flight.) Armor is also made securely so it doesn't fall off, and also very light for air force troops. (In a dogfight, soldiers tend to go for the wings since they can't feasibly be armored. The armor's purpose is more to protect from ground archers.)

    My dragons are fairly civilized. Hoarding, fire-breathing, carnivorous diet (they're omnivores in my book; think bears) and other wild dragon practices have been evolved past. There are some remnants of prehistory (spicy breath is considered attractive, like minty breath for humans but more so; capsicum is an integral part of a Khrizan's diet; this is in place of fire, though the actual connection between fire and spicy food is disputed; it's more likely that their herbivorous prehistoric victims consumed capsicum that provided an essential part in Khrizan health, kind of like iron for humans. In other species, instead of capsicum, they consume metals (especially precious ones,) mint, salt, or horseradish, depending on species.) They still hunt for food as a matter of necessity (can you domesticate deer? Because they haven't) and sport, and they eat their meat raw or cooked, depending on the dish. They don't really care. They've discovered bread, which is an excellent vehicle for spicy seasonings (peppercorns and capsicum leaves will be baked into it) and they have an aversion to mint (a different species of dragons from colder regions feel the same way about capsicum.) They still have sharp claws on both their fingers and toes, as well as sharp teeth and horns, though their tails barbs' are not as sharp. Also, their scales are not as armored as they once were, but they're much tougher than human skin. Hence, they don't feel the need to wear clothes except for armor or slight decoration. Or, of course, transportation (with the pouches on belts.)

    They build cities, which are built near forests where they can hunt or plentiful sources of water, preferably both. Cities tend to be a flight or more away; they don't make a habit of building cities right next to each other. (Although it does happen. But they never touch; you couldn't be walking in one city and suddenly step into another's limits.) It's illegal to fly in urban cities; more rural, spread-out places don't mind it. It's for a number of reasons, from consideration to security. Although when it comes to security, the logic is the same as gun control. A criminal's not going to refrain from flying in or over a city just because there's a law against it. Cities are medieval in appearance but as a civilization they're about as advanced as the 1700s, but slightly less so. (Cannons, but no guns. Not many ships either; Khrizans aren't water creatures. Vrakardians, though, are born wanderers, and they invented all kinds of boats long ago.) Khrizan currency is made from gold, silver and bronze. Eventually, someone will probably point out that paper is easier to fly with, but they don't trust paper money because they think it's too easy to counterfeit. So they keep the coins small. Also, since Khrizans are about twice as large as humans, everything they build is about twice as large as a human would build it, if it was something humans would build. Khrizans, of course, wouldn't build ladders except in a space their wings wouldn't fit, since they can just fly up to where they want to go.

    I think that's all the pertinent information that comes to mind. There doesn't have to be a human analogue to attraction, but I'm wondering if there could be something. If not, I'll just have them go by physical appearance alone like I'm already doing.
     
  16. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Benevolent Ochlocrat Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Ornamentation pops to mind. Not clothes, but as someone mentioned upthread, scars, or deliberate scarification. Tattooing or otherwise painting some sort of makeup onto scales. If their scales are very hard, there might be fashions of notching or otherwise roughing the edges of them. Plating the scales with precious metals, piercings.

    On a naturalistic side of things, however, someone recently strapped cameras to the heads of female peacocks (pea-hens, I guess is correct) to see what they were looking for when the males put on their displays. The videos seem to have been removed, but the article here says that they were most interested in the span of the peacocks' tail fans, not their heights or the "eyes" on them.

    Here's the video referenced in the article:

     
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  17. newjerseyrunner

    newjerseyrunner Contributor Contributor

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    Evolution would favor those who were attracted to elements that made a female dragon a good mother.

    Men like an young hour glass figure and big breasts. Why? Individually: were pigs. Anyhropologically: wide hips have less chance of killing either mother or baby during birth and large breasts and youth means well nourished enough to feed a baby.
     
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  18. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Benevolent Ochlocrat Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Dancing skills?

     
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  19. rktho

    rktho Contributor Contributor

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    Alright, question answered.
     
  20. TyrannusRex

    TyrannusRex Active Member

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    Glad you got your question answered, but allow me to say that perhaps, if your society (like many dragon societies I've read) places a high value on the arts, then maybe being a good painter, a good singer, playing an instrument, etc., might be considered attractive.
     
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  21. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

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    I would think for any sexually repoducin animalb the brain would produce endorphins to encourage the act. Much like food is enjoyable. Much like many animals enjoy forms of play, and social animals enjoy eacb other's company. So I think dragons would most likely enjoy sex.
     
  22. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Surely there must be some reward for at least one of the partners, or animals wouldn't do it. It's not as if they have the intellectual capacity to think, "I'd better make the sacrifice of having sex and reproducing, or my species will die out."
     
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  23. Spencer1990

    Spencer1990 Contributor Contributor

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    Biological/instinctual drive. Doesn't go much further than that in most animals.
     
  24. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    But aren't those drives, er, driven by rewards? I remember reading an experiment in which the ability of rats to experience rewards (they couldn't produce dopamine, I think?) was eliminated, and the rats stopped eating, because they no longer got a brain reward for it. Eating is a pretty fundamental drive.
     
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  25. rktho

    rktho Contributor Contributor

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    The thing is, my characters aren't animals.
     

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