So it's cool to admit we're all on some level convinced that our new WIP is genius, right? That's a thing we can all agree our brains tell us when we drop our guard? I kind of love that phase. It's like a crush. You get all excited and silly and it's stupid but still what if THIS IS THE ONE OMG and then they tell you nah. When do you submit to your first reality check? After the first draft is done? First chapter? I know writers who say that the beginning of the first draft is too fragile for critique and it needs to grow and mature a bit before they break out the chainsaw. I know people who wallow in that New-WIP honeymoon phase for as long as they can before they let anyone critique. I also know people who appreciate critique from the very first paragraph. What kind are you? At what point do you want to bring in the first outside opinions?
I started out writing fanfic, where posting stories as a WIP and getting real-time feedback was common. I even took that same path on LiveJournal with two original stories, so now that I don't post WIPs anymore it's a little weird for me to keep it all under my hat until the book is complete. My current process is to complete the first draft with every limited input from others. Then I edit the whole thing into a second draft that goes out to trusted betas. The lack of ego massaging that happens prior to that makes me sad.
After my 4th draft of something, I let people read it (workshop, etc.) After my 5th draft (which I create from the feedback I receive), I only post 'trouble chapters' or let selected people read the polished version. - I never let people read my first drafts.
Now that I'm out of fanfic mode it's amazing to me how much some writers polish before letting their stories out into the wild. I used to stay up to 2am writing a fic and then hit publish before stumbling into bed, hoping to wake to kudos, likes and reviews. I was rarely disappointed! This new way is a lot lonelier.
I've only written one finished novel to date (still tweaking.) I have another one in process, but I can only say what I did the first time. I didn't let on to people I was writing at all, until near the very end of the process. I was overwhelmed with offers to read it as soon as news got out. In fact, I got pestered, even though I was writing like mad, every day, galloping for the finish line. I think people who had known me for years were intrigued, because I'd never been a writer before ...other than letters and stuff like that. So they wanted to see what I'd done. I did go through the finished MS and do a bit of editing before I handed it out—without having a clue, really, other than my experience as a reader of stories and my ability to string sentences together and avoid SPAG errors. So I didn't really give anybody my FIRST first draft. But I did give a copy of the slightly edited one to EVERYBODY who asked for it. Mistake. I got a lot of excellent feedback, and realised how much story refining I needed to do. But I dumped my worst version on most of my friends and family. You really can't ask people to read a novel twice. So it's been new people who have read the corrected versions as I produced them. I also bought myself a wad of 'how to write' books and learned the craft after the fact. I'm a lot smarter now than I was then. I hope my next novel's first draft won't be so clunky, but I also learned to NOT give it out to everybody who asks. (IF I'm lucky enough that anybody asks—I suspect they'll be more wary second time around.) Just use only a couple of betas at a time and keep some in reserve. You're going to want folks to read the corrected versions as well. So don't use up all your betas at once. What I did get, though, was a sense that my story did work, and that people liked it and liked my characters. I had a few people say they couldn't finish it (for whatever reason) but most who did gave me very helpful feedback. You know your basic story is working if people talk about your characters and what happened, rather than just critiquing your prose. Some of my betas were happier than others about certain aspects of the story, and that's what I worked on. (I also had a couple of very experienced writers help me with the prose difficulties as well, bless 'em.) So ...the advantage to giving it out to dozens of people at once is that you get back a wide range of responses. However, you can't give the changed versions to these same people again, and expect them to read it. I did have three volunteers who asked to read the changed version, so I got lucky there. But I wouldn't count on that again. Whether you want to share your first couple of chapters before you've finished the whole story is up to you. Personally I would never do that. I don't want feedback on how people think my story is going to go. I want feedback on the whole thing, once it's done.
Right from the beginning. I brainstorm with my CPs and it's probably the most helpful phase of my planning. I then send chapters to my CPs/alpha readers as I go. The instant feedback is really motivating and saves any nasty surprises at the beta stage (like everybody hating my MCs!) Then I send to beta readers when it's fully edited and polished. You don't have to do it this way! Fanfic mode works great for me.
Uuuuusually after I do line edits, whatever draft that may be. Tends to be at least the 3rd draft. A general rule of thumb I abide by is that I seek out feedback once I've polished the story as much as I can. At that point, I need other eyes and brains on the piece to keep improving it.
I don't (seek out critique). At least not any more. This is in no way an indication I don't value the opinion of folk here (or anywhere else for that matter) but I already struggle getting any bulk down because of my inability not to edit and/or rewrite as I go along. The last thing I need is other people pointing out where the improvements need to come. If I allowed this I'd spend all my time editing and no time writing. If I ever get a first draft finished, I'd first have to polish it to the best of my ability until I considered giving it up for someone to read.
I'd sort of see it from a courtesy standpoint that it should be as good as you can possibly make it before you start handing it out. If you suspect something is wrong, but can't place your finger on what it is, and need a second pair of eyes to tell you, then that's different. But why waste people's time if you know that you can improve it, and how, but you just haven't bothered to do it?
If it's something I care about, I wait until it's as polished as I can make it. That's partially because I don't want people to see my first drafts, but I also think that's when I'm going to get the most out of a crit. I want a clear picture in my head of what it's supposed to be so that any feedback can be adapted to get it closer to that picture.
You shouldn't give unpolished work to people to read unless you don't care if they read again. I think it's respectful to have your best work before you ask someone else for their time.
although thers polish and polish ...most of us seek crit to help polish.. if you think the work is perfect why are you asking for crit
I'm fortunate enough to have the kind of honest best friend who will tell you, when asked, that yes, your butt looks big in those jeans, and please try this pair instead. She is the only person I will ever go clothes shopping with. Double fortunately for me, she is an avid reader who averages at least a book a week, of many different genres. So, she's my alpha. How soon I give her something depends. When I have a gut feeling something isn't working, I give her what I have so far and say, "Does this work?" and her answer is "No. Kill that scene." Or she'll tell me,"Oh God, I hate that part" or "I like this character but not that one" and tell me why it's not working. Other times, if it seems to be going OK, I wait to give her the complete polished first draft. Would I alpha strangers this soon in the process? Probably not. Would I alpha other friends and relatives? Nope.
HAHA! Off topic but I haven't posted on here for weeks. I looked at the recent posts and saw my avatar on the most recent one. I thought someone hacked my account of something haha
Oh, Sorry, @HistoricalScience ! I've only been here a couple of weeks and hadn't seen you or your avatar. My apologies. I was actually avatar-less for the first week or so. Since you had first dibs, would you like me to kill it? I have no problems being avatar-less again if the forum peeps are OK with it.
@Shenanigator @HistoricalScience Short Story Battle! (And then afterward we can all give you feedback!)
No need to apologize. I don't own it. Feel free to keep using it. It just caught me by surprise and thought it was funny. To answer the OP, I think you should give your work at least one read through and edit before showing anyone. You'll probably want to do more than just one after giving it that first read through as you'll end up changing a lot of the content and not necessarily edit for grammar and flow. Something that I've found was the act of sending it to someone makes you read it in a different light. I've read through things countless times and then sent it to someone and then can immediately find mistakes in it before that person has even given me their thoughts. Its a strange thing I've found over the years.
About a month ago when i joined this forum. Even though I've enjoyed everyone else's work, im slowly warming up to sharing my works. edit: sorry, miss read the title. Not sure when.
I'm in the learning stage about this myself (and it's painful but that's another topic). For my short stories, I finish first draft. I usually let it sit a day to catch the most glaring stuff, but then I give it out for a reality check. And then I get my swelled head dunked in what all I didn't see before For my WIP, I suspect it'll get done chapter by chapter, because by the time I'll get down to writing the damn thing, I'll know exactly what I want to say. I don't see the merit in waiting until all is written when logical mistakes at the start only proliferate to more logical mistakes in the timeline—kind of like a snowball and the avalanche.
