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  1. FutaMuffin

    FutaMuffin New Member

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    When does Erotica become Porn?

    Discussion in 'Erotica' started by FutaMuffin, Mar 19, 2017.

    Right, seeing as the last time a similar question such as this was posted got a reply back in November 2015, I thought I'd dredge up this subject once more.

    So basically, I'm lurking around this forum to help with my casual writing of Monster Girl short stories, which you could argue are fanfictions, with smutty lewdness being present in one form or another. From mild, almost intimate sharing of affection to just plain nasty rutting wrapped in a story like some sort of erotic sausage roll.

    As the title asks, when does Erotica cross the line into cheap Porn? Is it when the sex becomes the primary focus with little to no story involved or the scene itself becomes so graphic it overshadows everything else?

    I'm not trying to be pretentious, but there is a time and a place.
     
  2. SoulFire

    SoulFire Member

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    Pretty much sums it up.
     
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  3. BayView

    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    Eye of the beholder, I'd say.
     
  4. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Who wants waffles...? Contributor

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    I think it counts on what you want to say is porn.
    So I am going to have to agree with the lady from
    the great white north on this one.
     
  5. FutaMuffin

    FutaMuffin New Member

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    Yeah, I know it's one of those subjective issues. I suppose I'm trying to work out the feel of the forum for the possibilities of adding disclaimers to my work. Heaven forbid someone reads the entire excerpt I post and finds themselves offended enough to rant about it rather than just clicking back and ignoring it.

    Then again, I have been planning on writing the scene again following the cliche of 'less if more', just for the fun of it.

    Thank you
     
  6. Wolf Daemon

    Wolf Daemon Active Member

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    Erotica is literally written porn.
     
  7. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Unanimity requires compliance Contributor

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    Once you've met your requirements for access to the Workshop, you'll see that there's an "Erotica" section. It's got a set of rules you need to read before posting, but this forum does have a content rating system as follows:

    It's possible that someone might read something that's not their cup of tea, but as long as you appropriately title and rate your work, anyone who gets offended has pretty much only themselves to blame.

    Edit: Duh, of course you have access to the workshop. Kind of hard to critique without it, isn't it? Anyway, check the rules and some of the stories there to see how things work.
     
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  8. FutaMuffin

    FutaMuffin New Member

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    Yup, the rules were the... fourth thing I read in the Erotica section.

    Normally, I associate Erotica as eloquent porn. A bit like the difference between atmosphere and ambience.
     
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  9. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

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    This. :D

    I mean, isn't erotica often classified by its sizzling factor? And when it's level habanero, it's basically hardcore porn in written form?
     
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  10. jannert

    jannert Contributing Member Supporter Contributor

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    I'd say the line between the two is blurred. But I'd define 'erotica' as 'prettified, literarified porn.' The kind of writing that people can read and say, "Oh, no, this isn't porn, because ...(artistic merit, interesting story, good characters, exalted language, appreciation of beauty and form and function, consensual sex, lack of exploitation, etc.) This is not JUST about getting your rocks off—"

    When, in fact, it probably is.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017 at 10:24 AM
  11. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I'm reminded of one episode of Friends where Joey finds a certain kind of book from Rachel's bed. She's of course like nooo, it's literature, but Joey's like "lol yeah right, face it, that's porn." :D

    By the way, Anne Rice's Sleeping Beauty trilogy is very, very prettily written from what I can remember, but content-wise it's so effed up I had to wonder who the hell gets their rocks off from this, like there were passages I had to skip because hardcore rape... It makes The Story of O seem PG13.
     
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  12. jannert

    jannert Contributing Member Supporter Contributor

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    Yes, I've seen some of the Sleeping Beauty trilogy, and I agree. It's a bit ...overblown?
     
  13. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Yeah, and it was explicit, so I wouldn't necessarily classify it as softcore either. I mean, you could write about the most sexually deviant topics but if you never describe the acts themselves, you might end with a book that wouldn't be called erotica at all (The Black Jewels comes to mind, depraved af but from what I know, not very explicit).
     
  14. Wreybies

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    This. See, I don't think of the word porn as a clearcut descriptor so much as an emotional opinion, and it's not the only word to masquerade this way. Another example of this kind of thing is cynicism. Being called a cynic is an emotional engagement as regards how we feel about the cynic's opinions; it doesn't actually engage whether the cynic is correct or not in his or her observations. When you call someone a cynic, all you're really doing is saying that you've had enough of that person pointing out how shit things are, even when things may well be completely shit. It's a way to shut down a conversation or line of discourse that is making you emotionally uncomfortable because people tend to process the word cynicism as being equal to invalid, which is not what that word means at all.

    Porn is the same way. We process it as a shut-down term. As a sort of red flag we wave when we get that ookie feeling in our stomach because we are being made to feel uncomfortable, and since we are all individuals with differing levels of tolerance, the moment when that red flag gets waves will vary wildly between one person and the next.

    And then we've got cultural conditioning to take into account. I've always been of the opinion that explicit sex acts is only one kind of porn amongst a bewildering array of other types, but, depending on the culture we come from, we get conditioned to tolerate given kinds of porn to the point where we don't feel the need to raise the red flag or even think of those things as porn at all. As an American, it's endlessly pointed out to me that our media is drenched in graphic violence when compared to the media of other cultures, and there's no denying the truth of this. But since, as an American, I've been conditioned since day one to this kind of thing through such things as the capers of Tom & Jerry and Looney Tunes (I'm old), I've been so desensitized that I don't bother even bringing my red flag to the viewing of violence, and instead take note of and comment on the realism (or lack thereof) in the presentation of shattered bodies, destroyed craniums, etc.
     
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  15. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Wait, your premise is that porn is a negative thing? :eek::ninja:
     
  16. Wreybies

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    My premise is that the word porn really tends to means "I'm super uncomfortable right now. Ewwww."

    Reading and writing sex doesn't make me uncomfortable at all. It doesn't have an ew factor for me. Now I am perfectly well aware that attempting to redefine the word porn in a direction completely different to the one we usually take doesn't really help the conversation, but since, in the given direction we usually try to take, that ineffable point is famously hard to pin down, I figure it's worth a shot to give my very different take on the matter. ;)

    ETA: For example, anyone who has gone to my profile page here in the forum has been treated to a rear view of a character named Granz created by the artist Mentaiko. Google AYOR. Mentaiko's work often explores the taboos of his own culture, but also sometimes, as with Granz, he explores the idea of masculinity and the heavy baggage we give that word. Few westerners would look at his work and not categorize it as porn, which immediately assigns it a negative, devalued engagement. Why? Why is sexuality, engaged directly, any less valid a concept to engage through art and literature than any other concept? Goodness knows we have used sexuality, across the ages, as a tool of control for any number of ends, rewarding it, condemning it, offering it, withholding, making it divine, making it sinful, etc., etc., etc. Given how often this particular reign is the one being held to guide things in a particular direction, it amazes me that we make its discussion and presentation such a no-no. You'll find posts in this very forum where the topic is engaged in phrases such as "there's no need for it", or "there's no place for it". Really? Is that a genuine truth or is that pavlovian conditioning speaking?

    3885.png
     
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  17. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Who wants waffles...? Contributor

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    @Wreybies pardon my inner sketch artist/doodler.
    The lighting is a bit strange. Unless you have one
    really big yellow sun coming from somewhere in
    upper right, and a tiny white sun with a focused
    ray dispersal behind your MC.
    (I will hold my thoughts on the giant cleaver,
    when it comes to swords and when they are
    unmanageable.) :)

    Onto to your thoughts of porn, I would have to agree.
    There are people that find it in poor taste and gross.
    Though I think context is what makes the difference.
    Then again some are just plain prudish to the point
    of being absurd.
    Also why I stay away from mass media like television.
    It is bad for one's self esteem.
     
  18. Wreybies

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    As to the quality of artwork, I cannot speak. I am personally afflicted with a severe case of icantdraw making my opinion of little value. It's dawn. I imagine Granz is looking down onto the city from a balcony that leads onto a bedroom. The point of view is mine, from inside the room. He has spent the night and is soon to be off. A man like Granz is not one for cuddling and just him spending the whole night was a win and a statement onto itself. ;)
     
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  19. Wreybies

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    BTW, and for reasons that started out as random, but I think can be argued as visual metaphor, here is Granz hefting said cleaver aloft. Image is perfectly safe for work and granny. ;) I agree it's impractical and rather silly, but I think that's not the point, really. Granz is the soul of masculinity, yet his personal ideas of what that means are intruded upon (pun intended) on a constant basis. I think that weapon is meant to look mean and stout, hefty and blunt, not even so much as a phallic symbol, but as a representation of his personality. There's purpose to its inelegance.
    Granz.png .
     
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  20. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Who wants waffles...? Contributor

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    I was kinda hinting more at the size, and being unwieldy.
    Though I am not saying that it is ridiculously too big,
    but enough to make it a bad option in a practical application.

     
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  21. Wreybies

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    No, no. I agree. My point is just that I think Mentaiko imagined and drew his weapon that way with a purpose. It's not practical. It's a representation of his personality. And in the stories where we engage Granz, the "weapon" he ends up using is... other. ;)
     
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  22. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Who wants waffles...? Contributor

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    So it is one of those; "Don't mess with me." Kinda swords, gotcha. ;)
     
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  23. PercyWolfgang

    PercyWolfgang Member

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    Both erotica and porn exist pretty much for arousal, but I think the difference between them for me is that erotica is more focused on the sensation. With erotica, you can really get into the characters head and almost feel everything they do (it's also why I believe erotica is more effective than porn). It is more focused on the characters and what they're feeling than just how graphic the act they're partaking in is.

    As people have said before me, really it is just porn, but I think it's better porn than porn.

    Another difference is that unlike real porn, in erotica the story is essential to the sex scenes and adds an extra layer to them rather than just being an annoying after thought.
     

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