1. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    Writing a Story With No Happy Endings

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by LordWarGod, Sep 17, 2018.

    Hello everybody, I've been struggling to get feedback on my writing so I've come here. To explain what my story is about, I'll include my blurb below:

    "A chilling story about the final years of the High Sovereignty of the Colonies during the Great Apocalypse as they fight a losing war after a thousand years. Legions of horrors and homicidal alien civilizations close in on them. This story follows the lives of families, soldiers and powerful figures living under the Sovereignty during these last few years as mankind comes to accept each other and their mutual fate."

    I'm trying to make it more about the emotional bonds between my characters, the horrors of war, starvation, rape and their struggle to survive against all odds. I was inspired by the story "The Road" where a father and a son travels through a post-apocalyptic world, the cause of the apocalypse is unknown and is never mentioned. All that matters is the bond between them, it is all about their connection as they try to survive together in a harsh world.

    I suppose my story is very different, it's in a similar vein to the movie Downfall, which is about the final days of Adolf Hitler in his bunker leading up to his suicide and the fall of the Nazi regime.

    I have several characters and follow many of their POVs throughout the story, jumping back and forth to different people. I also include backstories on a lot of the characters from when they were younger as well to show what life was like before they were dragged into the war so I can add contrast to the story. But ultimately, I want to make a statement with this story, I want to show that the bad guys often win in reality. That murder or rape often doesn't have meaning or purpose, that people do it just because. But despite all of that, the story shows how people can still love each other and care about each other.

    What do you think? Does it sound like something people would like to read knowing what will happen at the end anyway since it's spoiled in the blurb? Would people even be able to slog through the extremely graphic and downright disturbing world that I write about? Can't imagine there's too many people eager to dive right into this sort of stuff, right? Do you think that if I really fleshed out my characters, really made the reader feel the emotion and their connection with each other and pull off the ending well, this story plot would have potential?

    Thank you for reading!
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  2. Kalisto

    Kalisto Senior Member

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    No, I will not read that. And for a really weird reason too. I loved the book The Road and I continued to read it even knowing that the world wasn't going to go back to normal. Throughout the book, this father and son takes on this journey to the coast. The coast is represented in this story as sort of this promised land. And if they could just reach it, things will be okay. There was this hope of that. Yet, there was no reason to ever believe that as it was too good to be true. Yet, you still hoped. And even after they reached the coast and there was no promised land, you still hoped. And you didn't even know why. And I think it was because the boy still hoped.

    You see, hope is a powerful thing. If can't incorporate hope into the story, because that's just not realistic, then at least put it in the characters. Because that's what makes people love. That's makes people create. That's what makes people survive. It's the essence of human nature.
     
  3. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    The characters in the story do hope and see silver linings throughout their journeys as they survive the war. I'm writing the story with a lot of hope in mind for my characters but I'll remind the readers near the end that there is no happy ending, exactly as I said in the blurb. It's going to be lengthy and complicated so I think it might be enough for readers to feel like there's hope and get attached to a character or two.

    But I understand why you wouldn't want to read something like this and I respect that.
     
  4. Kalisto

    Kalisto Senior Member

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    I guess what I'm confused about now then is what are you trying to say? How does your book mirror the human experience? True, bad guys do often win. However, the thing about bad guys is that they've never been able to destroy all the good in the world. And maybe you're right. One day bad guys will clear the rest of us out. So where does hope help your characters?
     
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  5. Irina Samarskaya

    Irina Samarskaya Senior Member

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    Personally, I'd rather read the pre-history than the book itself because it sounds like an exercise of masochism to read about pain for no reason.

    Plus the "... do it just cause" aspect of the immorality makes it incredibly boring and postmodern. What's the point of reading a book about events happening "just because?" The "...yet in spite, they can still find love" part of it could work but it's like a shallow oasis in the desert as I could find love stories in more interesting and salvageable worlds.

    If I know the ending is a dark one, and for it to work I must be made to care first, then why would I reach out to care for characters I know will die/end tragically? Same for the world at large. It'd be more interesting to read of re-building and reformation as that's an actionable (hopeful) plot rather than a passive, withering plot.

    Like it's the difference between a story about someone dying of cancer (which is going to be tragic) versus someone dying of cancer and that someone's father endeavoring to cure cancer before the child dies (which could be tragic, but could also be hopeful and inspiring). Where's the doctor? Where's the inspiration? A void can be a great place to emphasize the light. Without the light, it's simply a void.

    Or in the case of this story idea; if there's no grander purpose (like from the perspective of the protagonists and antagonists) and no reason for being, and it's all going to end horribly, then the story becomes an exercise of masochism.

    However there is a market for emotional masochists, so that could work. However I'm definitely not the target audience.
     
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  6. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    Hope doesn't help my characters one bit, it's the very end of a thousand year war and I'm just writing about how it all ends for the humans. I hate the Hollywood approach, give audience hope, give them a happy ending and everybody is satisfied. I'd rather show what really happens when you face an unstoppable enemy to be honest.

    I think I've built up my world so much that there is so much stuff to write about, I have enough material to write maybe another two books on this universe. It isn't really the end of everything, after the humans die out, there are still trillions of other civilizations that fight and try to survive.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  7. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    I have plans to write a book based on this universe before the Great Apocalypse happens and even before the existence of the High Sovereignty. I also plan to write what happens in the distant future after everything has been wiped out. The idea is to disengage from the typical Hollywood "give audiences hope and a happy ending" thing. What matters is that the characters in the story still have hope, they still think there is a way out.

    Why do people read about Adolf Hitler and his downfall? Why do they watch movies like Downfall? We all know what happens in the end, we know they lose the war and crumble into nothingness. What's the point in reading or watching any of that? There's no hope for the Nazis at all.
     
  8. The Dapper Hooligan

    The Dapper Hooligan (V) ( ;,,;) (v) Contributor

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    Yeah, well, the thing about giving the characters and the audience hope something is what gets the reader from the first page to the last page. If characters don't have hope in something then they have nothing. No needs, no motivation, no goals. Without these things you have no story, no arcs, and no readers. I also don't like Hollywood style happy endings. I much prefer Hemingway with his dark, ambiguous endings, but he at least gives his characters a rug to stand on before he rips it out from under them.
     
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  9. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Hmm. I wonder if this is your key statement here, @LordWarGod :
    In order to build 'hope' into this, perhaps you could leave the ending open? In fact, despite what you say here, we ARE still here. Bad stuff has happened in the world since it began. However, people seem to find a way through eventually, and for a time, the bad guys don't win. (Of course we haven't actually destroyed the planet yet, and if that happens we ARE truly done for, unless we're also able to leave the planet and go elsewhere ...which has certainly been done before in fiction.)

    I think you have two choices here. You can make it clear that what the characters hope for is not going to happen. OR you could leave the possibility open that it might. Those are entirely different stories and will appeal to very different readers.

    I have a dear friend whose philosophy of life is: Nothing Matters. Coupled with: We're All Going To Die. He doesn't take that nihilism as a license to do horrible things, because then other people would do the same to him, which would badly affect him and make his life miserable. He wants to be comfortable while he's still alive; he just doesn't automatically expect to be, or think it's given that he should be. However, he does mean that nothing (including love) actually matters.

    That's probably intellectually true, and I can't argue with it. I don't personally see a fulfilling pattern, other than 'life' does seem to go on. BUT we all do matter to ourselves, don't we? And the people we love and the things we love and the kind of life we love do matter to us. Maybe the key is maintaining our individuality while accepting our mortality. Are we all connected? Is all life 'connected?' It's easy to say yes, we are ...but it doesn't feel like it most of the time.

    Life has to eat other living things in order to go on. There is no 'other' way, and sugar-coating it only distances you from the harsh reality of that. Yes, you can become a vegetarian, but there is research that shows plants reacting emotionally to certain people and things that get done to them. They are more sentient that we would like to believe. So where does that leave us? You eat some other living thing, or you starve. Not nice. But real.

    So it's back to you. You matter to you. Your loved ones matter to you. Your lifestyle matters to you. Your beliefs matter to you. But do they matter to anybody else? Probably not.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
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  10. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    Do you think an ambiguous blurb would suit this story better? If I just withheld the fact that there is no happy ending, I suppose people would be much more keen on reading this book. There is a lot of hope in the story but not in winning the war but in fleeing and escaping so it wouldn't just be an immediate grimdark everything is going to die thing, it would be gradual. Everybody but the top level guys don't know that their end is inevitable.
     
  11. Irina Samarskaya

    Irina Samarskaya Senior Member

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    In real life, there are no unstoppable enemies. Every "invincible" force has at some point withered by the vane. Hitler's downfall is only tragic for National Socialists and sympathizers, otherwise the main point of interest is neither to revel in Hitler's downfall nor pity him but of curiosity as men like Hitler are extremely rare. A war veteran from a "working class" background through the force of his will becoming the ruler of a former empire and then embarking upon one of the worst and most evil campaigns known to man is extremely interesting, especially since most of those involved believed themselves the good guys and most people involved were duped into believing Hitler was a Jesus rather than an Antichrist.

    Guys like Hitler elicit interest even though they have historically lost because they are so rare and unexplainable. How in the world does some guy who came from abject poverty become ruler of a nation? That by itself is extremely interesting. How does he then become the spearhead of a murderous and evil ideology? Also interesting. How then, after these things, does he topple a dozen nations in mere months? Again, interesting by itself. How this nobody became a great somebody and then, when it seemed like he would unite all Europe by force and massacre half of its population, when all hope rested on the shoulders of fearful Russians trying to assemble and stand up to their would-be executioners, the unthinkable happened: The Third Reich was defeated at Moscow, and then Stalingrad, and then St. Petersburg. The Antichrist was repulsed and the tide had turned! And then the Americans intervened and rescued their English cousins and alongside the Russians the Germans were utterly defeated. The man who forged the Third Reich had went from a wannabe painter, beggar, war veteran, soap-box preacher, dictator, supreme commander of an army, and then some madman in a bunker had ended his life by his own hands.

    How is this not an interesting villain? Especially considering he's real.

    However should the situation be reversed--should the focus be on a good guy transplanted into Hitler and instead of massacring people he's trying to save people--then this same plot becomes a tragic-adventure. It could be extremely good, however it'd be unfinished as I'd be wondering whether Antihitler's son (or whatever) could rebuild and end the evil order that rules the world. Leaving it with the Antihitler's death is unsatisfying; it demands a sequel.

    What you described is not one guy going from zero to hero to zero, but a world already at zero and people just barely trying to survive. Without a hero to unite them, it's quite boring.

    And realistically, heroes always come when they're needed; and when they are most effective. "Hope" without actionable inspiration is an opiod; however you could write a story of struggling remnants rebuilding and eventually overcoming their conquerors. And that is a very historically correct story (see The Great Revival, a history drama about King Goujian who has to save Yue from being conquered by the great Wu state, as an example. I won't spoiler it but basically it's all about persevering in spite of hopelessness and eventually overcoming the odds without relying on Deus ex Machina).

    I think if you were to write sequels, you ought to write books that take place after rebuilding and attempting to remake human civilizations. If the end is The End (full stop; no rebuilding; total extinction) then only masochists will find it appealing. Do what you want, but do consider the alternative of continuing after the downfall with a revival since... well, a whole religion originated from this concept and there's a reason why it's so popular.

    And historically correct. "Invincible" empires crumbled quite a few times; villains were repulsed by heroes; fragments succeeding in re-establishing old glory; and new things were created during the while. Whether it be the Fall of Rome by barbarians, the resurrection of Rome by the very same barbarians, or fast-forward to the seemingly-invincible Third Reich crumbling before a massively battered Russian people and then those same Russians then going on to have only America as a global rival is quite the inspirational story. And yet the basic plot is as old as time itself.
     
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  12. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    I agree with everything you've said here. Yes, every single empire that has conquered has experienced their demise, every single villain has faced their end somehow and their legacy lived on in the history books or disappeared entirely. Yes, there has never been an "invincible" villain or force in real life but think about the word invincible from the Nazis perspective when they were losing the war, to them; the Russians were invincible and could not be stopped.

    But in my story, it is quite literally "The End". Legions of gigantic demonic horrors emerge from an alternate dimension and pretty much just tear through everything, swarming entire planets with an army of demons, planets are eaten whole and entire galaxies disappear just like that. This is the literal apocalypse, there is no winning against these things. So, it would be insulting to the reader to then pull out a happy ending somehow when I've presented them with an invincible, immortal army that is ruled by powerful Gods. On top of that, they've arrived 500 years into the 1,000 year war with alien civilizations that want them extinct. There is no feasible way for my characters or for anyone living in this universe to survive. They can run, they can hide but eventually, the demons take over everything and the universe becomes a part of their horrific dimension.

    I kind of thought people would be on board with the idea of reading about the relationships between characters when put in a horrible world like this and seeing how beautiful life is before it is brutally crushed. But like you said; there is a market for this genre. So, it's not the end of the world for me if I decided to pursue this direction after all. Perhaps I'll make the blurb ambiguous, make the reader think there's a chance for my characters?
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  13. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    I'm determined to keep my ending the way it is, there is no feasible way for anyone to survive. But I'm open to making the blurb ambiguous so readers are enticed into reading the book. I agree with your friend's philosophy, that is the same philosophy that I am trying to portray in my book, that ultimate nothing matters. Everything that has happened will transform into something else and the cycle never ends.

    This is especially true in my universe since in the end, the Gods that control this demon legion eventually take over this universe and the rest of the multi-verse. Several trillion years later, the Gods converge and transform into an omnipotent being known as the Last God, who in his eternal solidarity decides to restore everything back to the way it was. Life always recycles, there is always something new being born over and over again. This is something I plan to write about, it'll likely be a short story though.

    That's exactly what I am writing about, despite the fact that everything is pointless, people still matter to themselves and their loved ones matter to them as well. That's the whole premise, it shows that we still care and love each other despite the cruel end that will come for us all.
     
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  14. Irina Samarskaya

    Irina Samarskaya Senior Member

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    I would not suggest that since people like me would review it very badly (as we were sold a story of salvation and given damnation instead). Not to mention the vastly different mental cultures at work; you admit in an above post to be a moral relativist and a nihilist while I am exactly the opposite.

    From the National Socialist perspective, they still have hope in the real world. Antisemitism hasn't gone extinct and the Liberal Left is receding rapidly as they lose young folks to the Conservative Right. Although National Socialism is too extreme for most people (like 99%) they're still more likely to find supporters among the very young of today than they were post WWII due to increasingly strong reactions against the established Left and progessivist culture of the West. Not to mention they could find their chance should a civil war happen after some kind of societal collapse 200 years from now. Given time, anything is possible.

    Your story is highly unbelievable and an exercise of masochism and that oh so boring "life is pain, life is pointless" mantra sung by the Dodos as they fly off into extinction. I don't mean to insult you, but I do think this is a worthwhile characterization because... you are essentially selling Black Pills on the literary market. And since I'm directly opposed to the core message, I don't think I can advise you on how to be make a better emo book without turning it into the Bible Part II instead.
     
  15. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I remember reading On The Beach, back when I was in college. In that book everybody died as a result of the fallout from nuclear war. I thought it was the most depressing thing I'd ever read, and it still holds that place in the pantheon of literature for me. I would be unlikely to read another story with the same viewpoint, even though I don't actually disagree with that viewpoint. I don't see any point in deliberately depressing myself. I really don't. (I don't enjoy Horror either, for the same reason. Why deliberately scare myself? Don't see the point.)

    I think I'm more like my friend. I want my life and the lives of people who matter to me to be comfortable and as pleasant as possible until we die. It would be nice if everybody could live pleasant lives before they die as well, and I even work a bit to make that happen on a more universal scale. I'm not selfish, and I do 'care' about the world—to a point. But do I believe in achievable universal bliss, or that its 'the way' we are all 'meant' to live? No, I don't. We either get temporarily lucky, or we don't.

    Everything dies to feed something else (in the absence of total planetary destruction where everything dies at once, and that's it.) That's the way the natural world works, whether we like it or not. We spend most of our lives trying NOT to die and be eaten ...but in the end, that's futile. It doesn't take an apocalypse. It's just life.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
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  16. Nariac

    Nariac Contributor Contributor

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    Books are by and large written to entertain. They should at least satisfy the reader.

    Will a bad ending entertain the reader? Probably not. Will it satisfy them? Depends, really.

    Is it a risk worth taking? Your call. :D

    I did have a super downer ending for my book but my brother warned me: "The readers will likely hate you if you do this ... and will not buy your subsequent books!"
     
  17. A.S.Ford

    A.S.Ford Active Member

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    Have you ever watched Seeking a Friend for the End of the World? It's a bit more light-hearted than The Road (which I loved) but, like your story, there is no hope of survival for the end of the book (it is stated early on in the film that a large meteor is approaching the Earth and WILL wipe out all life when it hits) - the only hope for the main character is that he will find someone to share his final moments with when the end does comes.

    I will confess that I do prefer books with ambiguous endings and I do find that the obvious happy ending stories do end up a little same-ish after a while but I also do like films and books that have no happy ending because they are different and I like to see how the characters are going to handle the situation even though they won't survive. Human nature is a very interesting thing. Thinking to my own novels-in-progress, one of them has an ambiguous ending and the other has an ultimate happy ending for a secondary character but not for the main character.

    I think, with your story in particular, it will all depend on how you handle the subject and how you ultimately portray the story and the themes you wish to include. Consider all the comments, perhaps re-watch (and read) The Road and watch Seeking a Friend for the End of the World, then write your story how you feel it needs to be written with all those things in mind. To find out how well a story will be received you need to write it first then give it to a few trusted people to read and get their true opinions on it. Worry about the story's reception once you have written it but do take the comments in this stream and the influences you gain from any films and stories into consideration before you continue to work on this particular idea.

    *The one true criticism or advice/warning I might make at this point is to be wary of the theme/inclusion of 'rape' if it just there for the sake of violence and brutality then it shouldn't be there and will be considered a cliche and vulgar element by many. It can also be a trigger for many people and may deter them from reading the rest of the book. If the inclusions of rape are merely background mentions that play no significant part in the narrative of your characters then that would be more accepting by most than outright displays of it will be. Just something to consider.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
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  18. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    "Seeking a Friend for the End of the World" is also another favorite of mine and made me cry a lot. I took a lot of inspiration from it as well, that despite the fact that everything is going to end, we were rooting for them to survive the whole way and when they got together, it was cathartic for us even if they died at the end. The ending was one of the most beautiful endings I've ever seen and I want an ending like that for my story.

    The reason why I include rape and not give it a purpose most of the time is because in real life, it really doesn't have much purpose, just like murder. You spend long enough reading about the underbelly of the world and you realize that it's not like Hollywood at all, that people really don't need a good reason to shoot people, like being their lives being in danger. I've seen tons of videos where people just pulled their gun out and shot someone just for brushing up their coat accidentally on the sidewalk. It's the reality of the world that I want to convey here, people and especially Hollywood likes to romanticize murder and rape and think that somehow it has a deeper meaning or purpose. For example, in Game of Thrones, Khal Drogo rapes Daenerys but it eventually becomes meaningful as she uses it as a tool to control him later on and they become lovers. I've always hated that, it just sounds like using rape as a tool which is unrealistic, rape usually breaks down their victims and it can take years for them to put themselves back together again.

    Rape is really prominent in this world but so is flaying, so is torture and genocide. When a civilization is living out it's final days while trillions of displaced refugees are being crammed into gigantic mega-cities where trillions of people already live and you force a mandatory 100 work hour quota onto them you are going to experience human nature amped up to 11. Not to mention a military police that is trained to either execute criminals or give them an option to enlist in the armed forces and head to the front-lines, cities are so overfilled they can't afford jails anymore. Refugee ships take months, even years to carry refugees to other planets and those ships are often overfilled to the brim as well. The soldiers running those ships usually commence a hunger games with the populace, dropping crates of food down a shaft and watching them rip each other apart. Corpses pile up like mountains and the stench fills the lower parts of the ship. Gangs begin to form, they take most of the food and they control everybody else.

    When the world has gone to shit, people seriously do not need a good reason to rape, murder or commit genocide. I'm just showing how things really are in the real world, Hollywood romanticizes everything. But all of that doesn't mean that people can't still love each other, take care of each other and show compassion for one another, that's the premise of the story.
     
  19. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    I have a feeling the readers will hate me anyway for what happens in the story, they will call me sick and twisted. But I still want to write it and make a statement, I've had enough with Hollywood tropes where everything has a beautiful cathartic meaning or purpose. I know readers will be entertained though, it has a lot of battle sequences, political debates and back-stabbings and the monsters will definitely draw them in.

    I don't think I've ever read a book or seen a movie like this, where it just throws the real world into your face, Game of Thrones is child's play and likes to add a deep meaning to everything so the readers don't just get mad when their favorite characters die. It's like getting mad at God for some drunk driver smashing into your sister's car and instantly killing her, it's not the work of a God or anything, it's the work of some asshole drunk that decided to get into a car one day. Nothing beautiful about it at all.
     
  20. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    I have heard about "On The Beach", it's supposed to be very good and it was brought up in threads that discussed "The Road". But yeah, that's my point, it's just life and there's nothing you can do about it. Once everything is dead, life finds a way to restart the cycle and that ironically begins with the very things that caused the destruction of the universe in the first place.

    It's just even despite all of that, I want to show that it doesn't matter when you care about each other.
     
  21. A.S.Ford

    A.S.Ford Active Member

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    I'm going to have to disagree with some of your statements. It has been medically/psychologically proven that, unless someone is completely deranged and detached from the real world, rape and murder always has a reason and/or a purpose.

    The comment I made in my previous response regarding the inclusion of rape is based off of my own, and other's I know, experiences with reading stuff with that content but the comment was also influenced by the current debates in the literary world regarding that particular theme. These days a lot of publishers are rejecting stories where rape is there for rape's sake - where it doesn't add anything to the story other than a shock-factor - and its not just rape that is taking this hit in the literary world. A lot of horror publishers now reject any horror or violence that is there for the sake of it. These elements now need to have a clear purpose that has a significant meaning for the narrative and/or the characters to be accepted.

    I know its easy to be defensive when it comes to your own ideas and stories (all writer's get this) but we are all here to help you not to offend you/your work or make you feel as though we are attacking you/your work. Take what we say or leave it, it is entirely up to you but perhaps take a little while then chew over what we have all said ... if you still disagree then that's okay. It's your story and you need to do what you feel is right for it :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  22. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    You're right, it would be betraying my readers and luring them in for the wrong reasons. But perhaps it could work, people in real life like to see the silver lining in everything and they read this book, noticing all the silver linings but it is all ripped away when they realize that there is no happy ending. It's depressing, it's horrible and leaves a bad taste in your mouth but it also teaches you that you shouldn't base your whole life on silver linings and take control of it because you never know when it's going to get ripped away from you.

    And yes, your suggestion that National Socialism may somehow see a rise in 200 years after waiting for so long is another point my story makes. Because after everything is eventually corrupted, eaten or killed by the Gods of Suffering and their demonic legions, the Gods will eventually converge into an omnipotent being trillion of years later and become The Last God and this being will just decide to restore everything again. Then the cycle repeats itself, some monstrous unstoppable force will ruin this universe and the multiverse once again.

    It's rebirth but with a sick twist that the horror never stops, which is probably a likely case for our real life universe.
     
  23. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    Sure, there is a reason but what they consider a reason is not really something we consider a reason. Would we consider somebody brushing up against your coat a reason to commit mass genocide against that person's entire race? Probably not, even if it's a reason for that person, it's not exactly a reason to me and more of an abuse of power just because they can.

    It's a running theme in the story.
     
  24. LordWarGod

    LordWarGod Banned

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    Yeah I understand that's how publishers feel these days, but I'm not using rape, violence or horror just for the shock factor. I'm doing to ground people in reality, I'm saying "this is real life right here, this could happen to you anytime and it doesn't even need a God-given reason." That being said, I do use these things to further the plot and allow the reader to assume that it had some kind of purpose or cathartic meaning in the end. I don't expect a publisher to accept any of my stuff because even if it ticks all the criteria boxes, the content alone is enough to put off any publisher from putting my book on the shelves. I'm likely going to self-publish for free, money doesn't mean anything to me.

    I just wanted to see what people thought and understandably, I've been met with criticism due to the nature of the story and the lack of a carrot stick for the reader to chase throughout. I'm probably going to stick to my guns though, this is the story I want to tell and I don't want to sugar coat it at all. I appreciate all the criticism as well, I never felt attacked so don't worry about it.
     
  25. A.S.Ford

    A.S.Ford Active Member

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    As I said, unless someone is completely deranged and detached from the real world, there is always a reason based on human faults. E.g. the main motives for murder have been proved over the years to be jealousy, greed, and rage and the main motive of rape is control over the situation. These are motives we can understand though things would not act upon ourselves. People who commit these kinds of crimes have their own view of the world and reducing humanity (or the majority) to this type of person will offend a lot of readers. After reading your comments on everyone's responses I believe nothing I say will help you understand what I am trying to convey so I shall leave this thread now but I wish you good luck.
     

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