Novel Where would I post these questions?

I'm not a great writer, but I can make scenes and dialogues and chapter explanations for bookwriters. And that's how my current novel is getting done. They are loosely putting the chapters together, and the scene and dialogue, then im going over it, then it's getting put together, then one re-edit from me, then it's done. I wrote out 25 hours of dialogue for them to loosely use. Try to maintain the jokes of the word presentation original and use the jokes for originality throughout the chapters. They added to my very original world in their own unique ways right away. So I trust them. Trusting off offwork isn't easy. Nothing too out there as far as what i wanted. It's costing me roughly 10k. I'm doing the novel because i'm coming into money soon, and i was thinking of turning this series right away into an animation series, blog, etc.... and get youtube really going. But i want to know if it's worth it, because if it isnt as awesome as i think it is, 10k is saving money. LOL. But it seems pretty awesome.

1) Do you like how i'm getting my novel done? Is there anything else to get done during the process that will help?
2) Are animation series scripts worth writing out to post here just to get "vibes"?
3) Is 10k good for 11 chapters 35/50 pages a chapter? If it's just my perfect creation once it's done?
4) Will I get a good idea of how it would do on youtube/social media off the book?
5) Here is a big question... how do I make sure the upwork author doesn't steal it? Do I need to trademark everything? LOL. If i was an upwork writer, i'd take these ideas over the 10k. LOL. Yea, help me understand how to not get ripped off. LOL i'm so new to all of this.

 

Who do you mean by 'they' and 'bookwriters'? Are you using some kind of vanity publisher? A ghost writer? I've never heard the terms 'upwork writer' or 'offwork' before. It sounds like you just came up with a basic rough idea and you're paying some group to write it for you.

And a big question is, who will own the copyright to the final published work? You, 'them', both?

 

That was my immediate question, as well: Who is "they" and "them"?

 

You are seriously paying $10,000 for someone else to use your bits and pieces of dialog/narrative to put together a 500 page book?

 

I'm going to guess this is a ghost-written vanity work...

1) Do you like how i'm getting my novel done? Is there anything else to get done during the process that will help? Does it matter if anyone likes how you do things? Personally, I wouldn't consider myself to be the author if I loosely throw some ideas and money at someone and they do all the writing, including "adding" to my original world. If I want a ghost-writer, it is purely for my own lack of writing ability,but all the ideas are my own. They don't get to go willy-nilly in my world or it ends up their book in my world. But this is all my personal opinion.

2) Are animation series scripts worth writing out to post here just to get "vibes"? Anything writing-related is good to post here. There are a lot of really good people, including several screenwriters than can help you.

3) Is 10k good for 11 chapters 35/50 pages a chapter? If it's just my perfect creation once it's done? Not in the ghost-writing business but I would say $1000 per chapter probably isn't too bad for 50 pages per chapter, although whenever I have written things for others, usually it's by word count, not pages. Pages are subjective based on paper dimensions, spacing, and font.

4) Will I get a good idea of how it would do on youtube/social media off the book? Social Media and YouTube are based on algorithms. If you get lucky and the algorithm likes what you are putting out, you can make it. Most people I know who make it semi-ok to full-time income level put more time into their social media work than I do in my full-time job for pretty close to the same amount of money. The lucky top content creators might make millions but the majority are lucky to break even on time-to-income ratio.

5) Here is a big question... how do I make sure the upwork author doesn't steal it? Do I need to trademark everything? LOL. If i was an upwork writer, i'd take these ideas over the 10k. LOL. Yea, help me understand how to not get ripped off. LOL i'm so new to all of this. Before you start working with a ghostwriter, you negotiate the contract; contracts should be written by lawyers. I'm guessing that you didn't do any of this. *NOT LEGAL ADVICE* but what I would do if I boo-booed and sent him all my original plans and $10k would be to keep all my correspondence so if he did try to claim it, I would have a leg to stand on in court when I have to prove that it was my creation. My experience with semi-ghostwriting is in the realm of technology and research work, basically turning the technobabble into readable English. I have never made $10k off any of these and I have never once thought that the ideas I was translating was worth more than the $ I was being offered for my service --and I think any respectable ghostwriter would feel the same. I hope you hired a respectable ghostwriter and did not opt for your bum friend from high school to write this for $10k in his mom's basement.

 

1) Personally, not really. It depends to an extent how much book there is, and what currency, and how many writers it's to be spread between... but for a 50,000+ words book, even with the best will in the world this doesn't seem likely to be enough money to motivate 1 capable writer, and if it then splits down into 5 writers it becomes harder to envisage anyone prioritizing it over their own projects. It might look alright when boiled down to a word rate, but it's deceptive - I think, anyway.

For fiction I've only heard of ghostwriting being done for pre-established names and on a 1 author per book basis. And then I wonder whether this new approach seems likely to produce a higher or lower quality book. It's execution, not ideas that are the bottleneck - if someone can write I'd always rather read their ideas than what anyone else paid them to write. And I must say my perception of professional ghostwriters is that they are ultimately writing what they want to write - and it would show if they didn't. The unkind cliche is of them exercising too much creative control, not too little.

2) I believe scripts would be okay to put in the Scripts & Screenplays area of the workshop - best to check the rules before posting to make sure

3) The words per page is a moveable feast but if I was going to write 500 pages of doublespaced 12pt A4 for you I'd want a multiple of that sum. And not a small multiple.

4) I don't think it's possible to predict how something would move from a book into new media. There are rubbish books and series with lots of channels dedicated to them and vice versa. To have any chance it would need other disciplines alongside the writing. You might find individuals on this forum with youtube expertise but so far I've not seen it be discussed much or often

5) I believe the only answer to this is that you'll need a lawyer who is acting for you and provides a solicitor's indemnity. If I was a conscientious upwork writer I'd want to know you'd had a proper contract drawn up before taking the job (for example, showing what happens to my fee if the other writer in the middle holds up the whole project)

That may be a glass-half-empty outlook, but into the top of that glass I will pour the following petrol:-
Wouldn't the time be better spent on becoming good at writing?

 

So just to make it clear, have you already funded the $10,000 stuff on Upwork and are now just asking how to not get ripped off? You already said in your first paragraph that you trust them. You either trust them or you don't to take care of your story.

 

First off, you are getting ripped off. Stop paying these people and just learn how to write. Writing is hard, it takes a long time to figure out and not everyone can do it, but paying someone $10k is just foolish. Don't do it.

So let's answer your questions:
1) I have no idea. There's this very bizarre idea these days that if you even try to do anything, you have to end up with a saleable product at the end or it wasn't worth doing at all to begin with. You learn how to do by doing. You're going to be doing for a very long time with nothing to show for it but experience. Anyone who can't handle that shouldn't be doing it at all. You need to write a complete book on your own, see what people think of your completed work, then go write another, taking what you learned with the first. Do this a half-dozen times. Throw those half-dozen attempts in a trunk somewhere and never look at them again. That's how you learn how to write.

2) Scriptwriting and novels are two entirely different things. If you want to write scripts, go find a forum dedicated to scriptwriting.

3) You are getting screwed. In writing, money only flows to the author, never away. You are getting taken advantage of. Stop it.

4) If you're looking for salability, you have to be able to write first. You're never going to learn how to write by paying someone to do all of the work.

5) Get rid of the idiot on Upwork.

 

Honestly, if you don't want to actually write it, or have it 100% ghostwritten, maybe you should consider being like a producer or similar creative, especially since you mention that the final product will be an animated series.

You said you will be coming into money, you didn't say that what amount, but regardless, you are being wise to question the amount you have to pay for these services.

Personally, I think you are delegating too much to others to consider the novel 'your own'.

 

yea... maybe i could just create the world through 11 rough chapters to pitch the entire thing? Just to show how perfect everything is? Like, man, I'm coming back from malpractice that stole 13 years from me. I'm just getting into the writing and production and everything world. Trying to grasp the entire thing. I need help with writing entirely. I can write scripts though pretty good. I'm just afraid to share them here to get critique. How do I trademark "ideas"? Like, the entire world is unique. You'd know if someone ripped it off.

No... i made them show me they were right by fleshing out the ideas i presented and the world. But now i regret showing them. We agreed on 10k for all the re-edits. I got money coming from a huge partypoker cash. Sattied into a 1k and got 7th for 96k CAD. It takes longer to cash out 96k CAD when you're doing it the first time. They put more work into going over your hands, just in case you did anything wrong. They've been checking for 4 days. I havent even heard anything except "bank transfer"

 

I mean, an upwork comedy author... I got them in email. You have to understand, I am not a good writer. I think I really could be, if I found an author i connected with on comedy. Like dialogue and me, aren't good. Just presenting it for 11 chapters of good, solid flow. Meaning.. I don't know how to write. But yea, I'm just going to maybe start a blog. LOL. That'd be funny if this all turned into a blog and forum. LOL. That's my "artistic skills"...

 

Thank goodness you were on a reputable site and you can be confident you'll get your own winnings. I'd consider using some of that money to work on improving your writing on whatever you feel is weak, and then once you've reached your limits, you have less you need to pay others to complete your work. Even if you just pay someone to mow your lawn so you can spend that much time reading some writing guides.

 

Okay, so I work on Upwork and everything you've just said confuses me. Now bear in mind, I only work from the freelancer side, so I don't know how the client side works, but

Did you give out/receive you/their email BEFORE you gave them a contract because contacting each other before a contract is accepted is against Upwork's TOS and any good Upwork freelancer would've been able to spot that. If they didn't spot it and didn't tell you, there's a high chance of scamming.

You didn't ask for any of their writing samples beforehand? Most writing freelancers have samples of their work in the genre that they want to work in. You also could've just asked for a generic comedy script to look at if they didn't have any samples.

I'm a little confused here. Do you mean the freelancer, your bank, or Upwork itself is asking for a bank transfer. If it's the freelancer then I think you are absolutely being scammed. Payment in Upwork is only processed through Upwork, not directly to the freelancer themselves. It's in their TOS. If they're asking for a bank transfer then they're scamming you.

Most Upwork freelancers have ratings, JSS scores, past client reviews, past earnings, and all that stuff in their portfolios so clients can tell if they're good freelancers or not. Does the freelancer you're talking with have good ratings, good JSS past earnings, and client reviews? If not, I wouldn't trust them.

A quick Google search to your first question and yeah, you can't trademark ideas. If you were writing the novel itself, I think the novel would be automatically copyrighted, but you can't copyright ideas.

Also, if your end goal is an animated series... why not just skip the novel and go straight to the animated series? It just seems like a lot of hurdles to hoop to get there.

 

No.. I just messaged one comedian author(ill get you the page in 10 minutes if you can link to upwork accounts)who charged the most to revamp it for a certain amount later. It was like 3 paragraphs... but now i dont know if i'm doing that. I thought i had the genius way. The bank transfer is from partypoker in europe. I am talking to them now. I gave them enough time. They aren't screwing me, thank God. They never did cashing out a 1000 at a time. LOL And i'm writing a screenplay right now just off this guy like in the butterfly effect. It's a rip off, but just to get opinions. I can't post my world i created. I know that sounds like i might be over-rating it, but I don't think i am. edit- tuesday or wedneday that money is in my account. WOO! But yea, i cant do the animated series until i can pay for concept art, right?

 

So here's the thing, it sounds like you haven't put up an Upwork contract with the author, haven't looked through the author's profile, haven't done anything besides talk to an author, show 'em your ideas, and ask for 'em to write something along those lines so you can see how they writes. At this point they don't have an obligation to you, and you don't have an obligation to them. You can ditch 'em with no consequences. They can ditch you with no consequences. As to whether they would steal your ideas, I'd call it highly unlikely. If their writing is good enough to warrant $10,000 then they probably don't need, want, or have the time to write out someone else's ideas.

Also, to your second question, you have to do a lot more than pay for concept art to do an animated series. Like, a lot more, but if you know how to write scripts and you have enough money, why not get started on the animated series at the get-go instead of wasting your money on a novel?

 

Just to present the world, man. You know? Just to give it to producers and stuff, to see if it could be this world. You know? I think it could be a cartoon network kind of thing. It has crazy comedic potential. And the entire thing is funny.

Yes, you're right. But even a 500 page 10k book could be a launching pad. I think it will be my book at the end.

 

Not sure I'm following. Please excuse my befuddlement. You're paying an agent $10,000 to present your idea for a fictional world to people who might be able to use the world as a setting for a cartoon series? And to ghostwrite your ideas in a book to attract attention for the cartoon series?

 

I didn't say it was but if you're looking for help, go where the help is. As you said, it's not really used much here.

 

okay... let's make use of this thread... so you guys, link me to a reasonable affordable writing course. Maybe a series of courses? I know how to write stuff... like i'm autistic... i can write stuff, and it's like my brain poorly interpreting everything? LOL. If i could take a course, that'd be huge. My last writing education was in 2003 in small town Saskatchewan? Then i wrote in E-feds? LOL. But really... just link me to a good beginner/medium course.

I wrote stuff yesterday... and just read it... i get like worlds out of everything. like chapters/scenes/whatever... but i need someone to like, listen to me. This is nothing. Nothing.

{deleted by moderator for the second time - repost it again and we'll ban you -I'm not kidding}