1. stingrae

    stingrae Member

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    White character in Asian fantasy

    Discussion in 'Character Development' started by stingrae, May 8, 2017.

    I'm currently writing a fantasy story about characters dealing with turmoil in their villages due to the anger of mystical beings. The setting is in a Japan-type land (I've yet to decide whether to actually make it Japan or create my own countries) so all of the characters are Asian. I was thinking of having a white male character as well, not for the sake of having one, but because he''ll be someone with skills vital in aiding the characters, and of course has a reason for being present, I wouldn't just drop him in.

    However, I'm hesitant. Would it be considered "white washing" to include a white character in a story where the majority are Asian? Unnecessary? Would people think I'm trying to force my story to be diverse? I never saw the Great Wall movie with Matt Damon, but was his reasoning for being in China warranted or was he just thrown in, and did his role fit or not? That's where I'm at right now.
     
  2. Stormburn

    Stormburn Contributor Contributor

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    I'm currently writing a short story about the Mongolian invasion of Hungary being interrupted by aliens. Originally, the PoV was to be the Europeans. But, the Mongols are so cool! So, a Mongolian general is my MC. I have not regretted it.
     
  3. izzybot

    izzybot (unspecified) Contributor

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    If there's a reason for him being there then I don't think there's a problem. Discussions of diversity in modern-day settings crop up because modern-day real life 'settings' are rarely comprised of entirely one race; if we're instead talking about small villages to which there's no reason to immigrate, then sure, his presence needs to be justified, I'd say. But that can be done pretty easily. It's not whitewashing for there to be a foreign guy around.
     
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  4. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    I introduced a mystery character in my story. After two thirds of the book, he found his reason d'etre, and actually got play his part on center stage for a couple of chapters. As @Stormburn is reading it, I can't say more!
     
  5. Stormburn

    Stormburn Contributor Contributor

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    Thanks!
     
  6. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    No, white-washing is not the thing to watch out for in this particular dynamic you have described. The pitfall to avoid here is the White Savior. It's totally avoidable while still maintaining the features you have described thus far. Follow the link, read the stuff, know the things. ;)
     
  7. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I agree with @Wreybies - this wouldn't be whitewashing. But if your white character is the star, or has unusual gifts or is any way more "special" than the Asian characters, I think you should be concerned. Just not about whitewashing as such.
     
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  8. stingrae

    stingrae Member

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    Thank you, "white savior" is the term I didn't know!
     
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  9. cherrya

    cherrya Active Member

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    Whitewashing? No, not if he's not meant to be asian. Unnecessary? Maybe. Why does he have to be white? If you feel like you need to create a whole complicated reason to justify it, I'd say it might be unnecessary. Japan is not just a country with very few Caucasians, it's a country that refused entirely to deal with foreigners (with the exception of one Scandinavian country that I have forgotten the name, but even then it was regulated and they couldn't just appear out of no where. It was also focussed on trade and they had a limit to what they could bring if I'm remembering correctly). What I'm trying to say is that it was really hard to be white in japan (people would not only spot you instantly, but they literally wouldn't get you. They might have heard rumours, most likely not if they're from a village, but depending on the era most likely they wouldn't understand why that person looks like that and would spot him instantly). If he has to be white because his 'power' has occidental origins and can't be found in japan, that's one thing.

    As long as he's not the big white saviour who is the only one able to save the country and somehow stronger at their things than they are, I personally don't see the problem. But take it from someone who spends a lot of time on tumblr, there'll always be people who find issues with this stuff regardless. Just make sure that it's really what you want to the point where it won't matter to you if some people aren't happy with it. That's my advice lol.
     
  10. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    That link I gave mentions the commonality of this trope in 18th and 19th century fiction, but it's still alive and well in the modern era. I mean look at the image below and then read that linked article. It's pretty much a synopsis of this film. ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  11. stingrae

    stingrae Member

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    I'll have to look into the "dealing with foreigners" thing. I'm not certain what era the setting is yet, certainly before the 1800s, but I want to be as accurate as fantasy allows. And no, he's not white because of a "power", he's actually there searching for herbs to heal his sick relative (I've yet to decide on the person being a partner or a sibling). Though, what you're saying about foreigners being regulated may hinder that plot point... hm... I'll have to look into it more.

    Actually, I just plugged in "foreigners in ancient Japan" into Google and got it: Sakoku. Very helpful article. Thank you for bringing up the policy, I would have never known!
     
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  12. X Equestris

    X Equestris Contributor Contributor

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    This was not always so:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanban_trade

    Indeed, the isolationism was a direct reaction to the above period of interaction.
     
  13. stingrae

    stingrae Member

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    Oh, why did I get the feeling this movie would come up at some point if I made this thread? Ha. :D I loved this, had the biggest crush on Sam Worthington (he's a decent actor!) and watched the extra footage too many times to count.

    Yes, I can definitely see the trope here.
     
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  14. stingrae

    stingrae Member

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    I read the article, maybe it's because I don't have my glasses on me at the moment and can't read the text well, but what interaction are you referring to? Just the general interaction between Japanese and Europeans, or was there a specific incident I'm not seeing?
     
  15. X Equestris

    X Equestris Contributor Contributor

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    Going with a secondary world would give you more freedom to work with, without a doubt. It also allows more creativity when it comes to plot events and culture. White characters showing up in Asian lands, and vice versa, isn't unrealistic on its own. As long as you avoid the aforementioned white savior archetype, I don't see any problems here.
     
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  16. X Equestris

    X Equestris Contributor Contributor

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    Just in general, mostly. The rapid spread of Christianity unsettled some, and there were fears about military conquest by the Portuguese. So Tokugawa ended up greatly limiting foreign trade (just the Dutch, who had a small enclave and could only send so many ships a year), and harshly persecuting Japanese Christians.
     
  17. rktho

    rktho Contributor Contributor

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    Why is he white though? That's the important part. Does he have to be white? If the answer is yes, go for it.

    It wouldn't be a bad reason to simply have diversity as long as you make it seem plausible. In the Last Airbender series, the four nations are more or less ethnically diverse from one another (interestingly enough, the dark-skinned Water Tribe and the pale Fire Nation had their skin tones reversed for the film-- a move I consider stupid and racist.) If this guy is, like, the only white guy in the entire book, you might not be able to pull it off unless you say he's from a faraway land or something.
     
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  18. cherrya

    cherrya Active Member

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    It might be a bit difficult but not impossible if it's before the 19th century. That's because of the war with the bakufu and all that, I can't remember what it's called but it's when they saw the samurai as a threat. Take this with a grain of salt because it's really far into my memory but as I recall they wanted to change to old regime to be more open to foreigners and adopt more of their ways but half of the country (if not more perhaps)was opposed to that and from there came a war with the british (and maybe some other country?) and its own country (ever saw The Last Samurai?). In the end they lost and there was no more samurai. Although, I think it ended during the 18th century, but it might have started just before.

    I'm telling you all this because seeing a white person in late 1700's would probably be less unusual in japan than during the Heian period (700's - 1100's) where there was practically none (if not none at all since it's before The Great Discoveries (if that's how you call them in english haha) which started I think during the late 16th century)

    But I could see it happening with the herbs thing, although it's kind of odd to imagine someone going all the way to another continent knowing it might take you half a year if I'm being generous (depending on where he's from). I'm not telling you all this to dissuade you by the way, there are ways to go around that stuff, that's part of what storytelling is about isn't it? You can read all about that stuff on a wikipedia page I imagine, could be interesting.
     
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  19. stingrae

    stingrae Member

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    Like I said in another post, he's visiting the country looking for medicine (I'll flesh it out more in the story of course, but that's the bare bones of it). I suppose I could make him from any part of the world, but the area he's from and the reasoning behind his need for medicine overlap (I'm kicking around the idea that it constantly rains in his part of the world, and the illness affecting his relative is having trouble going away because of the constant weather, something like that).
     
  20. stingrae

    stingrae Member

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    I was actually considering making it within that time range (700's - 1100's) because there's a mythological element that I feel would be more believable in older times than more recent -- if you could call 1700's recent! But I'm still working everything out, so that might change. Sure, Narnia took place during one of the world wars, but the land itself seemed to be dated much further back than the 1900's.

    In terms of the time it takes to travel, well, I was considering a plot twist where the relative isn't actually alive anymore, which makes sense as to why he's not concerned about taking too long getting back to his home nation.
     
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  21. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Shogun by James Clavell , Nuff said
     
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  22. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Oh, man. :) And we just looooooooved it, didn't we. ;) Richard Chamberlain, king of the early 80's miniseries! :-D

    [​IMG]
     
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  23. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I've never seen the series, just read the book
     
  24. NoGoodNobu

    NoGoodNobu Contributor Contributor

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    I think I've heard that both were based on William Adams?

    I've never read or seen either version

    Are they bad?
     
  25. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    The miniseries was immensely popular at the time. I've not seen it in ages, so I cannot say how well it's held up over the decades. A lot of stuff from the 80's can be great, but a lot of it has a really false quality to the dialogue that makes it hard to watch these days.
     

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