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  1. Bobby Burrows

    Bobby Burrows Senior Member

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    White Guilt

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Bobby Burrows, Jan 11, 2019.

    A history of Europeans and the infliction of policies and righteousness.

    Where did it begin?
    When did it begin?

    I plan to tell this story by story, examples of white guilt through out history leading up to present times, focusing on examples of white guilt.
    I'm not going to make it bloodline, more, race line, where the only thing these white guilt examples have in common is they're white and they're taken in by policies of racism, like the law or the culture.
     
  2. Bobby Burrows

    Bobby Burrows Senior Member

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    My aim, to tell such a story, would be to change certain things, to rethink, stop for a second, and look at what's going on.

    There are many examples of white guilt by people across the globe, time to start studying them for my story.
     
  3. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    White guilt?
     
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  4. Bobby Burrows

    Bobby Burrows Senior Member

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    Yes, the history of imperialistic greed and control.

    When the Lenape were greeted by concept of ownership.

    When Slavery was an economic system not invented by Europeans, but, bought into massively by Europeans.

    This

    Philippines too.
     
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  5. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man or BayView Supporter

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    Are you looking for examples of white people doing bad things to non-white people and cultures?

    It's a bit confusing because when you say you're exploring white guilt, it sounds like you're exploring the emotion.
     
  6. FifthofAscalante

    FifthofAscalante Member

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    I find the subject fascinating, the interest with it, not white guilt itself. Self-flagellation is not a new concept, except I find white guilt even more nonsensical. My parents suffer from it, but they’ve gone so deep down the rabbit hole they wouldn’t be able to explain it to themselves.

    What convinced you to believe in it? What do you hope to accomplish ultimately?
     
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  7. Foxxx

    Foxxx The Debonair Contributor

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    Zoinks, Scoob.
     
  8. Bobby Burrows

    Bobby Burrows Senior Member

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    I was born and raised in London, UK; like ground zero for all of that British empire history;
    I see it when I go out, in the building names, in the statues, in the policing;

    I want London to be a place where I can walk around, without getting reminded of The British empire and I want the police in London/UK/world, to look into institutionalized racism.

    I want to question the mantra of blonde haired blue eye girls being the bench mark, and explore why women/people of colour for years had to conform to appease white culture to fit in.
     
  9. Foxxx

    Foxxx The Debonair Contributor

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    "I was born and raised in Beijing, China; like ground zero for all of that Chinese empire history;
    I see it when I go out, in the building names, in the statues, in the policing;

    I want Beijing to be a place where I can walk around without being reminded of the Chinese empire and I want the police in Beijing, China, the world, to look into institutionalized racism.

    I want to question the mantra of pale skin, slim bodies being the bench mark, and explore why foreigners who come to China must conform to appease Chinese culture and fit in."

    My point: you do at least realize that what you're describing isn't unique to white people or the west... right?

    I wonder why the Chinese aren't stricken with guilt over the imperialistic Qin, Tang, and Qing dynasties. That's a book I want to read about.

    And those damn Arabs should feel terrible about the Barbary slave trade. But, they don't.

    NOTE: I am not trying to stop you from writing what you want to write (as if I could even if I wanted to). I'm challenging your positions because I think you could research and write about these issues in a more informed and productive way, rather than a racist, immoral, and unethical way. I think you should choose the informed and productive approach because you won't alienate the majority of your audience, which means more people will listen to a well educated, just, and positive message.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  10. 18-Till-I-Die

    18-Till-I-Die Banned

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    My take?
    DISCLAIMER: THIS IS AN OPINION, DON'T STONE ME TO DEATH, PLEASE

    White Guilt is a concept created by the modern Millennial Left, this idea that an entire race has to constantly "apologize" and repent for some event that happened centuries ago. But obviously no one who belongs to a group that preforms actual terror attacks TODAY, like weeks ago, must ever feel sorry or pay for their crimes as that would be "racist".

    As a Black person who grew up in a staunchly Far Left, borderline Socialist, household I basically was raised from birth to believe that the (*researching pronouns*) "cis-gendered White male Christian" was this almost stereotypical, mustache twirling villain cackling like the Penguin while he plotted to poison Detroit's drinking water to advance some scheme to build doomsday weapons on the moon and wipe out the poor, downtrodden Colored Folks. The fact that the Daily Show, a tv show I'm disgusted to say I used to watch, literally portrayed Dick Cheney this way (and the new movie Vice has decided he's apparently Bane from The Dark Knight Rises, complete with Christian Bale) didn't help dispel this belief. But as I grew older I realized that the idea some kind of nebulous boogieman was "keeping down my peoples" was less to fear than the government agencies who LITERALLY built a plantation of welfare checks for us, then left us to die in ghettos soaked in drugs and slaughtered by gangs that WE founded after all work ethic and morality was drained from us by the Left.

    White Guilt is a concept, a term and a logical contortion founded on the same ideology as "hate speech". It's a concoction hastily thrown together by a bizarre, Game of Thrones-like alliance of billionaire Liberal celebrities who have literally NOTHING to lose if my country implodes because they live in walled off hamlets like California or socialist backwaters in Europe, globalist assholes who believe some Star Trek like utopia is just around the corner if we could just annihilate the history and cultural beliefs of all of mankind prior to Barrack Obama's Apotheosis in 2008 and racial supremacists like BLM and La Raza stupid enough to honestly believe the idiotic brainwashing the former two groups fed them for generations and want the extinction of an entire race...as long as it's not their own. Because that's not bigoted at all!

    And the worst part is an entire generation of White Liberals, mostly twenty-something or thirty-something Millennials, agree with this genocidal, self-hating delusion makes me want to slit my wrists. The fact that THREE TIMES in the last week I have had Millennial Liberals question if I was "really" Black or one accuse me of pretending to be one because I dared to suggest White people weren't some homogeneous hive mind of Tyranid-like sociopaths trying to annihilate mankind out of spite for Black women having nicer asses (they do, by the way) or some other asinine pablum only reinforces my previous decisions to never, ever vote Democrat again unless Nancy Pelosi is holding a gun to the head of my pregnant wife at the voting booth and demanding I go straight Blue or watch my unborn child die like Rob Stark. And I realize just by saying that, I'm probably courting the ban hammer or getting this thread erased from history, but whatev, truth is truth.

    So yeah, White Guilt, the end result of a generation of people told to hate themselves because racial supremacy is only ok if Colored Folkz do it, otherwise you're supposed to despise your heritage. Because, idk, slavery or something.

    (never mind that a huge number of slaves were owned by Muslims, or that many African tribes SOLD slaves to White traders of their own volition, but that's just history with actual empirical evidence and logic and reason is for Klansmen amirite! #BuildBridges #Resist)
     
  11. Tristan's Opa

    Tristan's Opa Member Supporter

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    Wow. You want to take on a lot. Perhaps if you look at it from a simple greed point of view.

    Throughout history cultures had hierarchical structures, many a typical pyramid with someone at the top. Military land grabs resulted in oppression and wealth redistribution. The British Empire was and is just a small piece of the puzzle. Spain and Portugal pretty much killed off the indigenous people of the southern Americas for gold. France, England and a few others the northern parts. England also had India and most of south east Asia.

    The Europeans took over-lording to a whole new level by monetizing it. Don't think it was just women or people of color. The system was weaponized to destroy rivals in business or even countries. Debtors prisons and the poor were put to work for the lords are good examples. It's still in use today. If not for social welfare systems, the people would rise up and destroy that system. Starving masses have been known to make some pretty large changes.

    They say the meek shall inherit the earth. I see the greedy taking it all.
     
  12. exweedfarmer

    exweedfarmer Contributor Contributor

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    18-till-i-die, I just want to applaud.

    I've been villainize all my civil-rights afflicted life for being an unpopular color, by those of my color. Thank you for understanding.

    Back to the OP: People... Hell primates, are short sighted and greedy, that's just their nature. Factor that in when you're doing your research and you may be surprised.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  13. Foxxx

    Foxxx The Debonair Contributor

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    @18-Till-I-Die

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I totally disagree with the general tone and vitriol in @18-Till-I-Die 's post, but I do agree that "White Guilt" is a politicized term and I think this politicization may make things more difficult for you if you do your research using that term.

    I'm liberal (I'm liberal by CANADIAN standards, so I'm a far-left extremist by US standards!) and I'm white, but I don't feel guilt for being white. I was born with pale skin. My life has been significantly easier in many ways because of this. That's just reality--not something I need to feel guilt about.

    My ancestors also had pale skin. Their lives were probably significantly easier in many ways because of this, and some of them probably did a little or a lot to perpetuate the system that gave them unfair advantages. That's something my ancestors may or may not feel guilty about, but it's no reason for me to feel guilty.

    I feel like there's often an extra step taken in discussions like this. Someone like me mentions how our lives have been easier, and brings up the concept of privilege. We may mention that we, as a society, should take steps to address that unfair privilege. This seems pretty incontrovertible and not debate-worthy, so far.

    But then somehow an extra step is taken in which other people feel as if there's a connection between acknowledging privilege and laying blame. I don't think this step makes sense. I mean, I'm to blame if I don't speak up and try to STOP fairness, but that's blaming me for being complacent and selfish, not for being white.

    So, anyway - I feel like you might find better results, without a lot of politicized stuff mixed in, if you searched for ideas about British imperialism or colonialism or something?
     
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  15. Foxxx

    Foxxx The Debonair Contributor

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    I agree with you about the misattribution of guilt, and I also think you offered good suggestions to the OP.

    Where I disagree is simple. I identify a second "extra step" taken before discussions like this, and this is the presumption that all white people have "easier privileged lives" and, conversely, no colored people have "privileged, easy lives", and that all of that can be ENTIRELY laid at the feet of skin color. So in other words, instead of a multidimensional analysis, you have a unidimensional analysis.

    It's this collectivist approach and confusing of 'privilege' that makes that controvertible and debatable. Privilege isn't synonymous with luck and good fortune.
     
  16. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    ... Uh, what?
     
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  17. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I don't think most people think of privilege as being an exclusively racial issue? There's privilege related to wealth, physical and mental health, nationality, education, religion, sex and/or gender and/or orientation, etc.

    What aspects do you think are missing from the conversation?
     
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  18. Azuresun

    Azuresun Senior Member

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    I'm just going to talk about this in terms of writing a story and warn you--don't lecture the audience, no matter how warranted the lecture may be. You can only complain for so long about bad things to someone who wasn't personally part of them before they ask "Okay, but what do you want me to do about it?". And if you don't have an answer to that question, people will just switch off unless they already agreed with your point.

    As you can see in this thread, arguing a good point badly will just make people oppose your position out of spite, because they think of it as pointless guilt-tripping. And then you lose someone who could have been an ally, as they assume that everyone on your side has the same goal, and they retreat into a fantasy of Evul SJW Millenial Libtards.
     
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  19. Foxxx

    Foxxx The Debonair Contributor

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    I don't want to derail the thread further, but since I was the one who engaged you, I'll say that I was approaching from the established context of this thread. You are correct that privilege is not limited to race, in the same way that imperialism isn't limited to white people. But there *are* people who think privilege related to wealth, for example, is actually a secondary consequence of racial privilege. When this argument is weaponized in broad enough scope, you get "white guilt", incidentally a fine place to start for a mental health discussion.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  20. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Loved by a Sweet lady. :) Supporter Contributor

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    You do know that guilt can only be asserted to guilty parties, right?
    And it is still an economic thing today in other parts of the world.
    So by the very notion that any country at a given time owned slaves,
    foreign or domestic, pretty much everywhere is guilty. So why should
    one color bear the brunt of that guilt, when damn near everywhere on
    the planet has at some point kept slaves. Can't change what happened
    in the past, only see the error in the ways, and change things for the
    future.
    As a species we have done horrible to one another since time began,
    so on the whole we should all be guilty of atrocities carried out by
    our ancestors, based upon feeling bad about something we had no
    control over (and were not alive to witness first hand).
    So when we look at the bigger picture, slavery is a global guilt problem.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery
     
  21. John-Wayne

    John-Wayne Madman Extradinor 24-Hour Time-Out Contributor

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    No, sorry can't feel sorry for a superficial trait as skin tone nor the actions of others, whom I have no control over. regardless of their skin tone. This may just be the Cynical-Misanthrope in me, people are defined by more than a singular trait, and one they had zero control nor say over. (I guess you can alter your skin tone, but it just looks bad).

    I agree with @18-Till-I-Die , it's progressive propaganda to keep us at each others throats. or cynical people like me to continue hating humanity. :p
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  22. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    That's quite a broad brush you've got there.
     
  23. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    So who is it behind this conspiracy?
     
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  24. Bobby Burrows

    Bobby Burrows Senior Member

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    It's ego standing in the way of white people who're oblivious to what it's like to be a person of colour. This can stop a white person from being empathetic to any set backs or hurdles people of colour live through in certain countries like UK, USA, Canada, Australia for example.

    The ego is a defense mechanism for survival to 'look out for number one', but has the ability to stand in the way of understanding.
     
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  25. Foxxx

    Foxxx The Debonair Contributor

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    I wouldn't know the answer to that question, but one thing is for certain: nobody to the right of moderate purports this sinister bullshit. They might promote other sinister bullshit, but not the brand known as "White Guilt". They say, "Sorry sir, we don't carry that brand. You'll have to go to the nearest progressive store to buy it."

    To try and be as fair as possible, most leftists (ex. social democrats) are intelligent enough to not drink the knock-off Kool-Aid known as White Guilt.

    So the best answer I could give you, would be a vague "progressive leaders". You'd then have to delve into individual movements within the progressive sphere. BLM and third-wave feminism are good places to start in my experience. Those are the groups where I've seen this product manufactured.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
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