White Guilt

Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Bobby Burrows, Jan 11, 2019.

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  1. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll I'm in G-love with a Wonderful Lady. :) Contributor

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    Turns out this has been a thing since 1978-ish.
    Though too keep things on the neutral path
    I am going to go with wiki again, so that it is
    just the info without leaning one way or the
    other (I hope), just the facts. :)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_guilt
    https://drum.lib.umd.edu/handle/1903/10333
    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167202238377

    And Urban dictionary doesn't paint it in a
    good light either, and it looks like it is more
    about rejecting ones culture for that of the
    implied culture they feel guilty about wronging.
    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=white%20guilt

    So overall the concept is not all the good for either
    side of the aisle.
    And in a way it really isn't doing the original Civil Rights
    Movement any favors, but the exact opposite.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
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  2. Foxxx

    Foxxx The Debonair Contributor

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    It probably dates back further than that, but 1978 isn't a bad place to start.

    From Christopher Hitchens' memoirs Hitch-22:

    "The reactionary and anti-Jewish crackdown of 1968, presaged by the arrest and imprisonment of Kuron and Modzelewski, had put all this into reverse. Kolakowski had, like so many of the intellectual leadership of Eastern Europe, been partly deported and partly self-exiled. He had at first gone to teach philosophy at the University of California at Berkeley -- a campus whose name was near-sacred to those of us who felt we were breathing the pure air of the Sixties -- but had evidently tired of this already and was willing to come to All Souls.*





    *While at Berkeley he had been handed a pamphlet that spoke of the contents of the university’s library system as so much ‘useless white knowledge’: this had somewhat put him off the New Left in its then-Bay Area form, where I assure you it can still be met with.” (Hitchens 122)
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
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  3. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Oh brother. So no white conservatives in the US care that this country used slaves in the 17-1800s, and the Progressives feel guilty for what someone did a couple hundred years ago and want to pay reparations or something?

    The stereotyping of people by their political views suggests some people here need to get out in the world more.
     
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  4. Iain Sparrow

    Iain Sparrow Contributor Contributor

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    You might first get rid of that most abhorrent symbol of the past, and British Imperialism, and all the ills England gave the world: you guys need to put an end to the Queen and her brood of layabouts. The French did it best, stripped king and queen of all dignity and led them to the scaffold like commoners. I fancy a kiss from Madame Guillotine is what your royals deserve.
     
  5. John-Wayne

    John-Wayne Madman with a pen in hand Contributor

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    Clearly there is a spectrum of political beliefs, I myself am a Republican-Liberal, but Progressives are hardly moderate or slight left leaning. And yeah, I had nothing to do with slavery, and I am very anti-slavery, you'll see that in my writing. So, why should I harp on the evil other people do as though it's my fault, even now people do bad things and I can't do a damn thing about it, so why is it my problem.
     
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  6. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    I'm not trying to attack you, but I find your whole premise disturbing. This attack against "Western Civilization" is beyond absurd because the so called 'system' you are attacking is the same system that allowed these injustices to be corrected over time.

    Just think about your very post: There are places where writing a book would get you killed, but you live in safety because of the the very thing you are trying to attack.
     
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  7. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I consider myself a moderate and a Progressive, so there you go. You seem to have a view of 'Progressives' as fitting into a certain pigeon hole. Doesn't it make more sense that if you yourself are "Republican-Liberal", others might not be quite the stereotyped folks you see them as either?
     
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  8. Foxxx

    Foxxx The Debonair Contributor

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    I'm constantly called a conservative on here, but I regard myself as a classical liberal.

    Then again, I hold views across the entire political spectrum, so maybe I'm an Eclectrist.

    Anyway, I think the point is that not literally every Progressive agrees with the 'white guilt' concept, but every person who agrees with the 'white guilt' concept is a Progressive.
     
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  9. John-Wayne

    John-Wayne Madman with a pen in hand Contributor

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    Okay.... so let me better explain myself here.

    I am a Republican as in I support a Constitutional-Republic style government with elected representatives and rule of law.

    I am a liberal in that I support people's rights and freedoms to not be tread on because it's offensive to others. I.E I support the right to bare arms, freedom of speech, etc. I will support a Nazi's right to gather just as much as I will support Antifa's right to protest. Though, personally I am fine with watching the two sides fight each other.

    As for the "Republican" party. they can go to hell.

    I am actaully Anti-Democracy, as I do not support the Tyranny of the Majority and mob rule. where 51% decides the fate of the 49%, I.E. let's say that 51% decides all people with blonde hair are evil and must be eliminated, thus it's carried out. with the 49% either being bystanders or killed.

    Now to contrast this with Progressives, who have given us such lovely bullshit as a million genders, "White Guilt", where white folks are the devil and straight white men need to be eliminated. Giving us such lovely groups as BLM, who want to kill Cops and Feminist+, who want to kill men, and if you disagree with a progressive you are a Bigot, Sexists, Homophone, and what other nonsense they can use to shut down the conversation and declare a faux victory.

    So you are either mistaken about being progressive or not a moderate.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  10. John-Wayne

    John-Wayne Madman with a pen in hand Contributor

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    I call myself a Republican-Liberal, but this is the more accurate term.

    I disagree, if they don't agree with "White Guilt" then they are not progressives, and I feel alot of true progressives would agree with that statment.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
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  11. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    I am as well, but sadly it seems like a lot of the ideas that Classical Liberalism supports are now considered conservative.
    -
    I use to consider myself left until the Google Memo surface. The way the media slammed James Damore made me understand what Trump means when he says 'Fake News.'

    For anyone who has not read the Google Memo it suggested that biological differences between men and women might account for why more men go into programming than women. The media said it was one of the most sexist things ever written despite Damore citing a number of scientific studies to support his theory.
     
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  12. John-Wayne

    John-Wayne Madman with a pen in hand Contributor

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    Pertty much, CL is the only way to go.

    Progressives are pretty much anti-science, especially when it tries to cut through their delusions.
     
  13. BayView

    BayView Contributor Contributor

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    Do you guys hear yourselves? Like... are you able to step outside of yourselves for a second and really see what you're saying?
     
  14. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    Enlighten us BayView.
     
  15. BayView

    BayView Contributor Contributor

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    I can't. I mean... it's there. All I could do is quote your posts back to you, and what's the point of that?
     
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  16. John-Wayne

    John-Wayne Madman with a pen in hand Contributor

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    Show us!!!!
     
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  17. OJB

    OJB A Mean Old Man Contributor

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    Okay, let me rephrase: What is your point? I mean, the OP is talking about White Guilt, and he dreams about the day when culture norms have been eroded and replaced with God knows what.

    My point is that the very culture he is wanting to replace is the same culture that allows him to even entertain this idea without having his head cut off. I mean, If in Korea he said, "I want us to write a book about Korean Guilt," They'd throw him into jail or have him shot.
     
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  18. John-Wayne

    John-Wayne Madman with a pen in hand Contributor

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    So you don't really have anything to counter our points, except to say we are behaving like fools. because, reasons. I.E. views and values don't align with yours. Well in name only at least. I still say you are a better capitalist than I am. BV .
     
  19. Matt E

    Matt E Ruler of the planet Omicron Persei 8 Supporter

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    I guess I'm curious about what the OP is/was looking for in this thread. I think it was originally in the Research section. The title is about the concept of white guilt, but I see in the subsequent replies that this seems mostly about imperialism -- the crimes that many are guilty about, more than the guilt itself. Am I right in understanding this in terms of what the OP is looking for research on, or am I mis-interpreting?

    To me, this is about the colonial age. Specifically in Europe, this was a time when several western countries had naval dominance over half the planet. Through various economic ventures, they got into the business of imperialism. Making colonies, capturing places a world away, ferrying around resources. And when they did this, otherization was a major enabler. Many of the European powers got together and carved up parts of the world. It was bad for business for them to fight each other, and their naval power gave them incredible reach, so they started to exploit the least powerful countries. Any country that was powerful enough to survive exploitation was generally left alone. Again, bad for business. They colonized and imperialized what they could, and exploited what they could. And race was a factor, because it was easier for them to otherize on racial grounds. Their neighbors would object more to the imperial exploitation of Sweden than, say, a country in Africa. This most prominently during the colonial era, around the 1500s, give or take a few centuries.

    This is the nature of imperialism -- exploitation. It's not always about race, but it is often about race. And due to how our history played out, European nations held super-power status for a pretty decent amount of time. And that brought out the worst in them. I'm not sure what I think about this concept of original sin, but there was certainly a lot of evil done here, and finding forgiveness is hard.

    I hope this helps the OP in terms of what he or she is looking for in research -- I'm still interested in this aspect of the thread, more than the debate stuff I guess.
     
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  20. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Other than your impression of the world, do you have any evidence?

    It's a ludicrous stereotype. Sorry, it just is.

    Not to mention the definition of "the 'white guilt' concept" has about as much meaning 'campus snowflakes'. A small group of people try to give a minor issue major societal importance.

    Look at this nonsense:
    Poppycock.

    It's some guy's eureka moment, I guess. I don't think this book has become a classic, does anyone else?

    Wiki on the book: White Guilt: How Blacks and Whites Together Destroyed the Promise of the Civil Rights Era is a book by American author Shelby Steele in 2006.
    This is the wrong forum to discuss white supremacists but honestly, this sounds like racist backlash to things like Affirmative Action and other things they resent because they perceive themselves as losers in the deal.

    I doubt you could find more than a handful of people who truly have a profound sense of guilt over how whites treated minorities decades or more ago.

    I'm disgusted at this country's imperialism, but why would I feel guilt about that? Affirmative action makes sense to me because it levels one playing field, not because I feel guilty that it is needed.

    Find us some whites who actually feel guilty rather than some whites who think other whites feel that way.
     
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  21. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Wow! That's nice you hold said political views. But you go seriously wrong when you make assumptions about other people's POVs.

    I think we're done here.
     
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  22. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    We don't think alike all that often but we sure do here.
     
  23. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Seriously? Feminists want to kill men? Blacks want to kill cops? OMFG!


    [sidenote: I didn't realize this thread was in the debate room. My bad, I'm outta here.]
     
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  24. John-Wayne

    John-Wayne Madman with a pen in hand Contributor

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    So it's okay to express your views and opinions but we are fools for expressing ours, which don't align to yours.
     
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  25. John-Wayne

    John-Wayne Madman with a pen in hand Contributor

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    Yes, Yes they do. want me to whip out the evidence.
     
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