Why is everyone so quick to make fantasy either urban steampunk or medieval? There's so much more.

Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by FireWater, Jul 8, 2017.

  1. jannert

    jannert Contributing Member Supporter Contributor

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    I think you're entering into a conversation that I was having with the person I quoted, and attributing some of the words and topics to me that aren't mine. The 'golden age' was something he/she mentioned in an earlier post as being gone. I was simply responding to that.

    He/she also said:
    I'm not sure how else to take that, except to mean 'published.' It's not going to be read unless it's published ...unless you're aware of a method of getting a book out there that has escaped my notice. And the implication I picked up from the quote is that in order to 'market' your book, you should probably stick to a formula, otherwise you're producing the literary equivalent of the emu burger. In other words, keep churning out what has already sold well if you want people to read your stuff? Churning out is a term I used, and I stick to it. It means exactly what I meant it to mean.

    And in fact, I listed two modern 'fantasy' authors whom I do enjoy a lot. Kage Baker and Joe Abercrombie. And another whom I would enjoy if he'd just finish his series. GRR Martin. The topic of this thread was not 'adventurous, original fiction,' but rather certain tropes that seem to be everywhere in fantasy these days. That's the topic I was addressing in my posts, and not any other.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
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  2. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Of course I am serious. :P Contributor

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    I think it would be fresh to interchange the common Fantasy
    creatures roles. Turn Orcs/Orks into the posh sophisticated,
    and Elves into the brutish barbarians. Exchange the roles
    of Humans and Dragons, or something. Gotta admit it would
    be a different take on things, and might be a bit of fun.

    It is an idea that is related to the threads originalish concept.

    Also:
    What is going on.jpg
     
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  3. BayView

    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    Well, I will absolutely exit the conversation, but as a general point of reference, if you want a private conversation, I think direct messages are more appropriate.
     
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  4. jannert

    jannert Contributing Member Supporter Contributor

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    Nobody was having a private conversation. But the public conversation has been moving steadily on throughout the thread. You may have missed part of it—specifically the original reference to the 'golden age'. Which did not come from me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  5. BayView

    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    I think I'd like pirate fantasy, too! I read a western fantasy last year, and some of the mythology stuff was a bit much for me, but the general vibe of it was fantastic.

    Maybe a spy-thriller fantasy? I guess that's kind of what superhero stories are, but if it was magic and whatever instead of superpowers? Like, instead of James Bond pulling out a gadget he'd have a magical item or a spell or something... all the political intrigue of Game of Thrones but in a modern setting? Anyone read anything like that?
     
  6. 123456789

    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    I can't understand why this would be interesting. You would still have creatures that act like orcs and creatures that act like elves. The difference would be almost entirely cosmetic and this is a novel not a movie.
     
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  7. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Of course I am serious. :P Contributor

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    Well it would break the common tropes that surround them
    in not being the same as everyone elses. You have to think
    outside the box a bit, even though you can't escape the box
    entirely. That is the angle of where it was going. Turning things
    on their head, mixing things up.
     
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  8. 123456789

    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Medieval fantasy isn't a box. It's a piece of cardboard or just a line, certainly not three dimensional.
     
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  9. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    A friend is writing a fantasy with a setting inspired by Ancient Egypt. I'm excited to read it, and I don't think I've ever said that about a fantasy manuscript.
     
  10. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributing Member Contributor

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    And what would it take to make Medieval fantasy three-dimensional? :cool:
     
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  11. Elven Candy

    Elven Candy Pay no attention to the foot in my mouth Supporter Contributor

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    That sounds really interesting! Do you have their permission to tell us what it's about?
     
  12. S A Lee

    S A Lee Contributing Member

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    Argument about the line between fantasy and supernatural aside, there is a teen series by Justin Somper about vampire pirates (called 'Vampirates') that came to mind when I read this.
     
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  13. Tenderiser

    Tenderiser Not a man Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    He won't tell me! He's making me wait until it's finished. :mad:
     
  14. X Equestris

    X Equestris Contributing Member Contributor

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    A Song of Ice and Fire would seem to refute that. As would, say, The Witcher. The key is in digging deeper than the theme park version that forms the stereotype.
     
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  15. Elven Candy

    Elven Candy Pay no attention to the foot in my mouth Supporter Contributor

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    I'll grab the pitchfork if you get the torch. We'll force it out of him! :superyesh:
     
  16. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin Contributing Member

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    "Vampirates?"

    (Smacks head)

    Why am I not surprised?
     
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  17. 123456789

    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Generally speaking, medival fantasy is entirely cosmetic. That means there's really nothing going on that couldn't be done better with South American soap opera models.
     
  18. 123456789

    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Exceptions don't refute anything, guys. We should also be speaking in loose, not definite, terms.
     
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  19. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Likewise, there's nothing really going on in South American soap operas that couldn't be done better with medieval fantasy cosmetics ;)

    Or if you don't like what happens in South American soap operas, why not look for medieval fantasy about other things happening instead?
     
  20. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Of course I am serious. :P Contributor

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    Technically Sci-fi with Aliens and Fantasy with Magic and Mythical creatures are
    both paranormal. As they are elements that we cannot prove exist/existed. So
    What is the big deal in defining difference? They are just at odds in terms of
    setting and time period. So the only things that count as Hard Sci-fi or Hard Fantasy
    cannot have anything that is impossible/implausible at all. Seems neither genres
    can win as the 'paranormal' aspects of them add flavor, which adds to the imaginative
    qualities of the story.

    So that means if you don't write Hard Sci-fi/Hard Fantasy you are basically writing
    paranormal, only problem is we don't call them that as they have already been classified
    into their specific genres.
     
  21. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin Contributing Member

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    Damn... I think you just broke my brain. Now I'm picturing all the cleavage, screaming, and broken plates happening in orc costumes.
     
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  22. 123456789

    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    What is the point of writing an elf? How does an elf impact a story any differently than a sophisticated and intelligent and maybe effeminate human being?


    You want Orc behavior? Go over to @matwoolf 's place for dinner.


    The traditional fantasy races are so superficial, it's painful to watch or read once you become an adult.
     
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  23. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Of course I am serious. :P Contributor

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    Your new best friend. :supergrin:
    Ork Friend.jpg
     
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  24. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Damn. I dunno what to say exactly. I will say I do not know the publishing industry but I doubt this is close to what is happening. You make them sound like little trolls hiding from the sun, fearing what they might consider too good for the world!

    Publishing is a business as a result. I expect it to follow basic business aspects. Like for one. The publisher doesn't cookie cutter the things. They don't make the music or the books or the movies. They find people or accept people who do. And "The Who" being uncopiable or difficult isn't something the media industry should be particular against. Actually it is exactly that reason why the people that signed them made so much money.

    In the same way. The reason they made like the tenth transformers movie isn't because they easy or bad or a mix of the two. Its because people watched the last one. There was a market for it. And they wanted to supply that market and make money. The moment the market dries up or becomes unprofitable, the transformers movies will vanish over night.

    So in this way the audience really does and always have had control. This is why I am not against them or the movies like that. If they keep being made, they are making someone happy. That is great! Just don't ask me to watch or enjoy them(the later being impossible.)

    I'll wait til I find something I like, and in that moment me and people like me will buy it and create a market for it.

    Point being, at the end of the day. Publishers want money and if a creative risk learned them money, they would take it in a heart beat! And some do! But it is tricky, being the trend setter is always better, but it is more risky. And when you are talking about the livelihood and jobs of these people. I can understand why they would rather, take minimal risks when possible.

    Wow this is bringing up memories. Lets just say, I had not always been the best at this topic.

    The true point or best point really is. The thing you advocate, pushing what you consider bad media out of the way to wait for more unique content not only restricts freedom but creates the very situation you are not wanting. It means the media is not allowing a market to be tapped simply out of spite.

    And lastly. I enjoy stupid comedy too! Everyone does. If only Mozart level stuff was released, then we would be drowned in it. A world drowned in Mozart might consider Bieber a breathe of creative fresh air. Because it is all relative.
     
  25. S A Lee

    S A Lee Contributing Member

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    It's aimed at kids, so of course the name is a bit silly. I do recommend for light reading though.
     
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