Writing a fantasy drama for a novel. Includes astrology. Need some advice!

Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by crownedroman, Jul 29, 2017.

  1. Rosacrvx

    Rosacrvx Contributor Contributor

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    If Leo or Capricorn are not ruling there will be trouble. They don't like not ruling. As for the house extinct, I can see how Pisces is supposed to dissolve into the universe and be everywhere and nowhere. Or you can have a vindictive Scorpio, and that would be an entirely different plot. (First ideas that pop into my mind.)


    You have a lot to work with here, and I mean a LOT! This could be the work of a lifetime. I'm intimidated just to think about it and I'm not the one who wants to write it!
    My long term advice, to you especially, a Virgo. Don't get too caught up with the details before you have a plot. I know, you must be thinking "but I'm a Virgo, it's all about the details!" ;) True, but story comes first. Details, second. Ask Agatha Christie, a Virgo.

    You have a very good idea here. Something that is Fantasy but familiar to people who know astrology, so that's half the work done for you. Which, by no means, makes it easier. Probably makes it harder.
    Congratulations on the idea and keep working at it. There is interest, as you can see in this thread. It's worth your investment and research and hard work. (Spoken like a good Taurus. :))
     
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  2. crownedroman

    crownedroman Member

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    It is actually Aries/Mars that currently rules the house. Not every house is happy with that decision though. ;) And my house, Virgo, is the one that is extinct. Still thinking of what to do for Scorpio, but the vindictive part is definitely filming possible ideas in my head. :cool: Everything is at its early stages though, and everything can change if there's a better way to do things. Thus partially the reason for this thread's existence. I love any feedback.

    Thank you, btw!!! I'm glad for the interest! I will definitely work hard to make this as awesome as possible! :bigtongue::cheerleader::bigtongue:
     
  3. TheNineMagi

    TheNineMagi take a moment to vote

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    :supergrin::superhello::pop:

    number one song when I was born:


    this is very true about leos
    [​IMG]

    Now the fun part is in Chinese astrology I'm also a Fire Horse... If I was Asian there is a very high probability I would not exist today :)

    Since fire is already voracious and powerful, the combination of the fire and the power of the horse is seen as an almost uncontrollably independent mixture by many believers in Chinese astrology.

    Fire Horses are seen as outgoing, people-loving, ambitious, rebellious, and independent. They are supposedly freedom-loving and impossible to contain.

    Fire Horses are formed from the heat of flames and the wildness of horses making them as dangerous as they are strong-willed. They fight and kick against boundaries, disregarding traditions, valuing blind faith over wisdomand cunning over intelligence. The first part of any Horse’s life is said to be full of ups and downs, but for a Fire Horse, who is destined for extremes, these are even more dramatic. Their bold natures and the heat in their bloodbring misery to their families, especially their husbands and fathers. Trying to restrain the will of a Fire Horse girl can cause tragedy, even death.

    Fire Horses race through life. They travel often, leaving home at a young age to chase the freedom and independence that feed them. Resourceful and confident, new situations do not intimidate them. This can cause trouble since they are often too confident and curious for their own good.

    The male Fire Horse is not considered as dangerous as the female. The same drive and determination that often brings disgrace to Fire Horse women brings distinction to men. It makes them good leaders, quick to make decisions, and gifted at turning a bad situation to their advantage. Fire Horse men are destined to be famous…or infamous.

    Fire Horses are full of contradictions. Their pride is paired with a great capacity for kindness. Despite their fierce independence, they need to belong. They are designed for conflict even inside their own skin. This makes it difficult to predict what a Fire Horse will do, especially one that is in love. They may sacrifice everything, but they are just as likely to destroy.

    In any case, all the qualities and defects inherent to the sign are brought to an apogee in the Fire Horse. No one, not even the Fire Tiger, can surpass him in optimism, enthusiasm, blind faith, and courage. If anyone is able to move mountains, it must be he. Extremely brilliant and terribly efficacious, he detests mediocrity and failure, and his achievements are generally equal to his inordinate dreams. Good luck often seems to be on his side. He is capable of the best as well as the worst deeds.


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    I love the mythology --- a leo fire horse can deliver the world on a silver platter to his benefactors, or destroy the world around them when done wrong. The fear in Asian culture is because usually you can see conflict coming and prepare for it accordingly. With the fire horse the power they hold is so finely honed, and so soft, it cannot be seen and cannot be prepared for. The most interesting part about this is we have no fear and actually tell the person their world is going to be destroyed. Regardless of their belief or disbelief of the statement, it is an unstoppable force once it is set in motion. It just happens, the stars align, and the only saving grace left is mercy if we so choose to see it as being deserved under the given the circumstances. Unfortunately for the person on the receiving end, (who is in most cases fully aware of what is occurring) all they can do is watch as their world is being meticulously torn apart with no clue of where it is coming from, or how to stop it.

    This is why we are seen as destroyers in the folklore, and Asian families will go out of their way to not have children in the year of the fire horse. It's not fantasy either, Japan had a half million count dip in birth rates, during the last fire horse year. China's gov. had to actively campaign to save these children especially girls who would be drowned upon birth for being born in the wrong year. A young fire horse will destroy if rubbed the wrong way and it's a very fast decision, with older ones it will be much more measured in this decision, but definitely not less destructive if they choose to go down this path.

    In perspective of the Leo aspect regarding confrontations, most Leo's will simply walk away, the self knowledge of what they can do is sufficient. you would really have to push hard to get a roar out of them. Add the fire horse aspects, and it becomes not only do they know, but the fear of using it in many cases is overridden by the fire aspect of the horse. Especially in very young ones who have not learned to control their fire side yet. Older ones will have usually learned to allow the Leo side to make the final decision. Now if this lion chooses to roar the person/organization on the receiving end is going to fucked beyond anything they can dream of as being possible. The only difference here is the Leo side flipped and calculating the decisions at the horse's intuitive speed. the young one is only relying on the the horse's intuition, the lion aspect is much more sub conscious, making it much more unpredictable.

    the fear in Asian cultures with a female fire horse is she will fall in love with the wrong man in an old world culture of arranged marriages or marriages inside of highly defined caste systems. Too head strong, and trying to stop it only brings disaster. In many cases being seen as damn if you do and damned if you don't. Pragmatically, the best bet is to let them run, but in patriarchal society this is paramount to social suicide.

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    I provide this as an insight should you need a chaotic character capable of turning on a dime, and create conflict on what others may perceive as, on a whim.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
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  4. crownedroman

    crownedroman Member

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    Thank you for the idea! I think I will take you up on it. I want a vindictive Scorpio, and perhaps I can still have it, but I definitely should fit in a Leo somewhere...
    I am also considering giving everyone their own different creature to represent their house. Was thinking dragon for a Leo or an Aries. Thoughts?
     
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  5. TheNineMagi

    TheNineMagi take a moment to vote

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    For some odd reason, I always felt the dragon belonged to Sagittarius, this is me personally though. I suppose it would be a wise story teller, traveling companion, and function like a hawk to a hunter.

    Scorpios are much more calculated and Machiavellian in their pursuit of vengeance, and it would be served cold.

    Aries, I would assign a hell hound, even though I know the ram of Aries is related to the golden fleece, most people relate Aries to the lust of war.

    I would give Leo a mouse as a reminder to Aesop's Fable of even a king is vulnerable, and their deeds determine their fate.
    A lion threatens a mouse that wakes him from sleep. The mouse begs forgiveness and makes the point that such unworthy prey would bring the lion no honor. The lion then agrees and sets the mouse free. Later, the lion is netted by hunters. Hearing it roaring, the mouse remembers its clemency and frees it by gnawing through the ropes. The moral of the story is that mercy brings its reward and that there is no being so small that it cannot help a greater.
     
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  6. crownedroman

    crownedroman Member

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    That's very interesting for Leo! I wouldn't have considered it at first. Though I'm not sure how the Leo audience would feel about being cast a mouse creature. Aries with a hell hound sounds pretty badass, maybe it's best for them? Also why do you feel the dragon for Sagit is best? Would like to know your reasoning. :D

    Perhaps Leo would be best suited for that sort of "passionate" vengeance then. I will definitely do something about Scorpio. Must continue my findings.
     
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  7. TheNineMagi

    TheNineMagi take a moment to vote

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    I don't know it is just a feeling on the Dragon, kind of like a mix between Mulan's Mushu, and the Dragon from Dragonheart. The Sagit would have it doing things it does not want to do, and the dragon's wisdom would be a great counter balance. But overall fun, with the antics and storytelling both the dragon and Sagit, would bring to the table. I also see a Sagit traveling from town to town either as a bard or healer of some sort, but always one step ahead of trouble.

    I think Leos would take the mouse in stride, and possibly even with pride if properly explained ... we know how to turn it around, so it looks good. --- I'm compassionate, merciful, and wise and care for even the smallest of creatures. --- :D

    then again this is me, your thoughts and direction could vary, and you have many different potential personality traits and vectors you can play with in this type of story.
     
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  8. Rosacrvx

    Rosacrvx Contributor Contributor

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    I'm afraid I don't have thoughts, no. That will depend on what you want to do with the creatures and what they are supposed to represent. This is the Fantasy part and it's all up to you.
    Me, I would bear in mind the Element, first of all. Aries and Leo are Fire, therefore a dragon fits both. But it's all up to you.

    Sorry to hear that the House of Virgo is extinct. :p

    It doesn't surprise me that a Virgo would make that sort of fiction about their own House, but be sure that in real life many of us would hate that to happen. I like Virgos! Maybe have a Machiavellian Taurus help your House in the fiction. (Machiavelli was a Taurus. We're Machiavellian like that.) And it makes sense. Taurus and Virgos are tight. Another idea if you want to explore it. ;)
     
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  9. crownedroman

    crownedroman Member

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    Hm, I will definitely look more into it. Sagittarius is a royal house, so perhaps the lesser houses under its banner could have more common roles. ;)
    Mouse for Leo is still being thought about. I want a creature that can be an alternative to it if Mouse isn't something I choose.
    There's lots I'm still thinking about! I need to do less thinking, though, and more writing. :(
     
  10. crownedroman

    crownedroman Member

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    Taurus and Virgo were definitely close houses. There's a lot of complications that arise after the Virgo House is gone. It's a primary point in my book, and the main character is a Virgo, so I have to explore it. :p A machiavellian Taurus is great idea. Would love to hear any other suggestions. You guys are all so great! :D
     
  11. archer88i

    archer88i Banned Contributor

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    For me, one of the most entertaining things about doing it this way is that it blurs the lines between reality and the story: you have people looking around for other sources to find out more about your invented world only to realize that they were so completely taken in that they didn't realize where the real stopped and the invention began.
     
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  12. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Contributor Contributor

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    My only question is: have you decided yet whether the by-birthdate personality traits are natural or enforced in your world?

    In the real world, the date of one's birth has no bearing on their personality whatsoever, so if you went the same way in your fictional world, then you'd have a lot of people whose true personalities do not match up with what their personalities are "supposed to" be like. I'm a Gemini, and I fit pretty well with the stereotypes of Geminis as being curious, nervous, indecisive, and terrified of having order imposed on my life against my will, so I would last reasonably well in a world where I was "supposed to be" all of those things (though I would struggle with the alleged extraversion/sociability of the stereotypical Gemini), but that would be an accident of probability and nothing more. Other people would not be nearly as lucky as I would be.

    Are you going with a story in which the birthdate-personality correlation is an objective fact of the world (in contrast with the real world), or are you going with the more dystopian route in which everybody is forced to act as though that's how the world works?

    EDIT: Or have you decided against birthdays altogether and are having people be tested for House compatibility instead?

    My favorite fantasy species that I'm using in my world is the psoglav, but I do a lot of tweaking of the classic folklore so as to make the psoglavs as superhumanly proficient in long-distance running as possible :)
     
  13. crownedroman

    crownedroman Member

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    Characters from each house share traits from their signs, but ultimately differ with motivations, desires, actions, etc. However, they all share distinct appearances, abilities, and gifts from their planetary gods/rulers. It distinguishes what house they were born in. Characters born from parents of a certain house sign who come out as a different sign are sent to the corresponding house they're matched with, but at the same time they maintain an unwanted status because they came out "different" (physically).

    I'm still thinking about this though. Don't know if I'll ultimately go with it. Still in the planning stages.
     
  14. crownedroman

    crownedroman Member

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    Agreed! I hope I do this right.
     
  15. Pinkymcfiddle

    Pinkymcfiddle Banned

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    I have not read other responses.

    My greatest advice is consistency. Design the rules first, including any magic. Never break them. That is it.
     
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  16. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Interesting discussion. I've always used astrology as a method of understanding motivation. External behaviour can be modified by all sorts of things, but I'm a strong believer that a person's sun sign determines motivation. So if your houses reflect the basic motivation (rather than outward behaviour) of each sign, that might be a good place to start.

    I'm a Cancerian, and I do feel that my basic motivation is security. I always want a back-up plan, an adequate stash of supplies to see me through a coming crisis, people I can depend on, etc. In return, I proffer these same things to other people, and I consider myself to be emotionally empathetic and cautiously giving, but I'm not keen to stick my neck too far above the parapet. Once my basic security needs are taken care of, however, I can be as adventurous as the next person. But I always keep something to fall back on. Any 'house' of mine would be well supplied with the necessities of life and provide a refuge from life's vagaries—for myself and for others who enter my sphere of influence.

    As for signs I'm not compatible with ...they are—unsurprisingly—the signs that threaten my security and/or want to control me, or thrive on constant upheaval. I may admire and like individuals from these 'exciting' signs, but I wouldn't want to live with them. And it's amazing how many individuals from these signs turn to me when their exciting, devil-may-care lifestyles lead to problems. I have a dual nature about that. On the one hand I'm happy to help and to share, but on the other hand I think ''well, maybe you'll learn..." Of course their signs mean they probably won't. And so it goes.

    I have good friends from all signs, but the ones I can live with most easily are Virgo, Taurus and other Cancers. Yet my very best friend for the past 50 years is a Sagittarius. However, we only shared accomodation for two years while we were at University, and while we enjoyed each other's company immensely, our notions of how to live were radically different. She was always wanting to change our environment (move furniture, etc), and that drove me cuckoo. But as long as we don't live together, we are the best of balances.

    I have also had excellent relationships (in a share-accomodation sense) with Capricorns, but they have to be the non-controlling types. And they are rare. Nothing worse than a Capricorn who wants to control other people, because they will persist, in a low-key way, until they do. However, nothing better than a Capricorn who recognises they have no right to control another person's life, and are willing to give the other person their personal space without intrusion or manipulation. These Capricorns are lovely people and great role models and friends you can depend on.

    I have a near-fatal attraction to Gemini men, and they are EXTREMELY bad for me. But they are so much fun! However, only as friends. The ones I like best are the ones who are peripatetic and inconsistent, which makes them fascinating, but a very bad bet for my long-term security needs!

    I love the interplay of signs, and think your idea for a story based on this is extremely interesting. Especially if your characters are 'real' people and not just ciphers for the signs. Play with the possibilites, and you'll have a lot of fun.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
  17. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Senior Member

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    While it's always interesting to meet an astrology believer, I have to remark that I am the diametrical opposite of my sign Libra. I am nothing like a 'social butterfly' or someone who attracts the company of others. Fictional characters have been easier for me to relate to than real people from the first grade onward.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
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  18. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Actually, Libra is a sign that puzzles me a bit. While I know many who seem to adhere to the stereotype of the 'balance seeker'—whether they are social butterflies or not—I also know a few who seem to enjoy upsetting the balance just because they 'can.' They seem to enjoy throwing the wee bomb into the middle of a settled situation, just to stand back and watch the fun. Of course they also tend to back off and pretend innocence when they're caught out doing just that, but by geez, they can sure do it. I think perhaps this type ARE concerned with 'balance,' but rather than maintaining it, a few of them enjoy upsetting it instead. I've worked with a few colleagues who used to do this, and they often got away with it because they knew just when to pull back and restore the balance, while innocently batting eyelashes and pretending the ill feeling had nothing to do with them. I have never quite understood the motivation for this, unless it's the urge to flirt with fire and not get burned. It was an interesting dance.

    Do you see yourself within that kind of setting at all? Just curious. (And yes, I do have a few good Libran friends, both male and female.)

    In my experience, Librans can often be people who seem very happy in their own company. In fact, one of my best Libran male friends has a lifelong fantasy of buying himself a cabin in the woods by a lake and living in it completely on his own, with just his books and music for company.

    Librans are often extremely talented at their choice of profession and/or interests as well. I've known several Libran musicians who are the kind who seem to find learning and producing great music an effortless exercise. Many of my favourite actors are Librans. And they are often deeply thoughtful people who enjoy reading, music, the arts in general. I enjoy their company a great deal, and discussions with them can be really productive. They can be extremly kindhearted and generous, and often have a really sharp sense of humour, which totally appeals to me. But the ones who deliberately stir the pot and create mischief? When that starts to happen I'm away like a shot because I don't quite understand it.
     
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  19. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Senior Member

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    Nah, that doesn't describe me at all. I do fit well with the 'can't tolerate injustice' aspect, though.

    These are... rather broad attributes.
     
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  20. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Yep. And probably not accurate, certainly not for all. Astrology isn't an exact science ...well, it's not really a science at all. It's just a way (for me anyway) of looking at personalities. I've found it works pretty well. But Libra is one sign I've never quite got to grips with. I can't explain. I like Librans, but they make me nervous? It seems like they can set impossibly high standards, and then fluctuate in how they apply these standards? :) I have to get to know them well before I fully trust them or get comfortable with them. It's probably my security-conscious Cancerian self defending my position. My complacently smug nature hates being wrong-footed.
     
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  21. crownedroman

    crownedroman Member

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    They are real people and not literal codes for their signs. If you read my responses above, you'll see that I've mentioned this a bit before. Also thank you for your insight on the signs you've encountered. :) This helps to give me some insight!
     
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  22. crownedroman

    crownedroman Member

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    Not everyone matches the traits of their signs to a T. Even though I am a Virgo, I don't think I'm very practical or all that well organized (though I try to be). My mother is a Libra and is an introvert/homebody for the most part. I think you're fine. :) Also love your Azula icon! She's one of my favorite characters!
     
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  23. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I'm a Virgo. People I know who are into astrology tell me I'm the poster boy for Virgos... like I couldn't be any more Virgo if I tried. Not sure what that means, but that's what they all say.

    ETA: happy birthday by the way, we're in the Virgo range now right?
     
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  24. Trish

    Trish Damned if I do and damned if I don't Contributor

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    I love this idea! Astrology fascinates me. I'm a Gemini, and in many ways I think it describes me quite well, though there are parts that are usually wrong. I'm not one to be the center of attention, I'm more of an observer. My longest standing relationships tend to be Taurus and Capricorn (and actually, my son is a Taurus and daughter a Capricorn, which I find to be funny). Pisces and Sagittarius I tend to butt heads with on a regular basis (though those could just be the ones I happen to know). And Scorpio and I are usually like oil on fire - and someone has thrown water on it to try to calm it down (if you don't know what this does - it causes an explosion of fire).

    For the most part though, descriptions of Gemini do seem to fit.

    ETA: And I usually get along with Virgo quite well, though apparently I shouldn't.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
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  25. crownedroman

    crownedroman Member

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    Yeeep, on August 22nd. :) My birthday is September 11th! But thank you!
     
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