Writing Voice

Discussion in 'General Writing' started by arron89, Jun 26, 2009.

  1. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    In the case of A Wrinkle In Time, I didn't remember any of that "adult writer looking indulgently down on children" vibe--any at all. And in re-reading, there was some, in patches. So I guess I don't mean writing errors (in a SPAG sense or a near-universally condemned style sense), but an inconsistency in voice.
     
    Steerpike likes this.
  2. matwoolf

    matwoolf Banned Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    6,631
    Likes Received:
    10,135
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    The library would be good. But you have to go to the library, and you have to join...I will go...
     
  3. LostThePlot

    LostThePlot Naysmith Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Messages:
    2,398
    Likes Received:
    2,026
    I don't think putting it that way is helpful to be honest.

    You get better at writing by writing. You get better at pacing and character arcs and everything else that makes for a good book by writing book length projects. Once you've done it a few times you develop a better sense for the form and, if not for things that work, at least for the things that won't work or you won't have space to include and so forth. That doesn't mean a first try is just a 'practice book' though. It can still be good. It'll take more effort to edit and polish that first book than the ones who come after it, certainly, because it'll have rookie mistakes in it and you likely haven't learned to be brutal and dispassionate when you edit yet.

    I agree with the general sentiment; the way you get better is by doing. But I don't think just seeing a project as disposable is a wise move.
     
    Malina likes this.
  4. NigeTheHat

    NigeTheHat Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    1,776
    Location:
    London
    Oh, good shout. Mockingbird's an amazing book.
     
  5. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    Messages:
    6,088
    Likes Received:
    7,422
    The piece linked here at the start of this discussion has to be one of the worst things I've ever read about writing and the industry. This blanket criticism of works being published by literary journals is outlandish. And to criticize the whole idea of workshopping only to then advertise your own workshop (like she's better at teaching anyone anything better than the professors and even students at a place like Iowa) is just ridiculous. Works being published in The Paris Review, Tin House and the likes are anything but bland. These journals continuously publish great pieces of writing. If the author of the article can't recognize talent and great works, she's probably in the wrong profession.

    Sure, when new writers are trying too hard it can sound like they are trying to hard. But this lady is talking about published works. Maybe she knew she would look stupid if she actually named an actual journal where she saw this as a problem, but she sure didn't back up anything she was saying as far as I'm concerned. I surely have never heard of her or any of her projects, but I will make sure to steer clear of them.
     
    123456789 likes this.
  6. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    I don't believe you read the piece linked (I have to assume that, since I have no evidence that you can't comprehend what you're reading, which is the only alternative). She's certainly not making a blanket indictment of literary work and the authors who write them. And if you look at the workshops she and Dean Smith are doing, they specifically avoid doing the things she's complaining of here, so there's nothing contradictory about it (whether they're right or wrong to avoid it is a separate issue). Sorry it seems to have hit a sore spot for you, but she's been fairly successful, as has Dean Smith.

    If you were familiar with genre writing circles you'd probably have heard of her. She has won Hugos for writing and editing, both, and Ellery Queen Awards (I have no idea what her mystery work is like, though). I'd say in your desire to stampede toward criticism you didn't bother actually reading or considering what was linked. If you had, then criticisms of what is there might be more on point (and therefore given greater consideration).
     
  7. Phil Mitchell

    Phil Mitchell Banned Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2015
    Messages:
    590
    Likes Received:
    247
    She's entitled to her opinion on her own blog. But she shouldn't blame the workshops, blame the weak writers who wilt and fold in the face of criticism. If you have a clear vision, stick to your guns.

    Just like me!
     
  8. Iain Sparrow

    Iain Sparrow Banned Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Messages:
    1,107
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    I've went back at various times and reread or listened on audio to Asimov's, Robot books, and they still retain some charm... but when I revisited on audio, The Mote in God's Eye by Niven & Pournelle, oh my, I lost all respect for it. Very dated, and without the charm.
     
  9. Iain Sparrow

    Iain Sparrow Banned Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Messages:
    1,107
    Likes Received:
    1,062

    Yes, as I recall it's the recollections of a mature woman telling the story through her 5-8 year old self.
    I wouldn't even consider picking up a book nowadays narrated in that style. But it works wonderfully in Mockingbird.
     
  10. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    I thought so too. The criticism I saw seemed to hinge around whether Scout would sound like that (which didn't make sense, since it is an adult looking back) or whether she would have such clarity of memory (which I guess could be valid, but I'm going with artistic license on that).
     
  11. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    I don't think contributing here is going to stop you being banned for all the spam posts.
     
    OJB and Wreybies like this.
  12. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    23,826
    Likes Received:
    20,815
    Location:
    El Tembloroso Caribe
    Jinkies.... Flipping spamflood. o_O
     
    Steerpike likes this.
  13. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2016
    Messages:
    2,521
    Likes Received:
    4,054
    I missed this earlier in the thread but am quoting because it is, IMO 100% spot on.
     
    Steerpike likes this.
  14. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,102
    Likes Received:
    4,605
    90% spot on. I totally agree about franchises like Fast and Furious, Transformers, anything Marvel, and Tom Clancy... They don't get as much as criticism as Twilight and they should.

    But ....sports? First off, that's not even a story. Second off, women love sports too. Just ask all the famous female professional athletes. It's incredible to call sports a "stupid" or a thing " loved by men." Talk about outrageous, poorly thought out stereotypes, that don't even make sense...
     
  15. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    She said "tend to" be loved by men. Do you feel that sports fans are an even split between men and women?
     
  16. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    Posted this before:

    http://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/arts-culture/stories/amp/why-do-we-hate-things-teen-girls-love

     
  17. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,102
    Likes Received:
    4,605
    I think we both know the ratio is a lot closer to 1:1 than for either Twilight or Tom Clancy. You've got gymnastics, girls basketball, field hockey, volleyball, tennis, female MMA and boxing, and a multitude of other female sports.

    It's also not make believe, unlike all the others things mentioned. It really was a bad example.
     
  18. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    I feel that you may not be altogether following the point made. I don't see it as being about make believe, but about respecting or failing to respect the tastes of different demographics. But it wasn't my point, so I may be mistaken.
     
  19. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,102
    Likes Received:
    4,605
  20. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    13,984
    Likes Received:
    8,557
    Location:
    California, US
    You've missed the point entirely.
     
  21. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,102
    Likes Received:
    4,605
    I don't think you can compare sports- a giant, historic concept, something that has been enjoyed by viewers and participants alike all around the globe for thousands of years, something that requires incredible skill, fortitude, and strategy, to either Twilight or the Fast and Furious.


    The original statement got it wrong twice. Sports is not stupid. And sports is not just liked by men.
     
  22. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    There are activities that extend the physical capabilities of the human body and represent a lifetime of accomplishment.

    And there are things like the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue, getting into brawls about football teams, and wearing imitation cheese on one's head.

    I'm very comfortable comparing the second set with Twilight and Fast and Furious. I'll take the first set under advisement.
     
    123456789 likes this.
  23. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,102
    Likes Received:
    4,605
    Weddings are pretty stupid as well...
     
  24. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    15,262
    Likes Received:
    13,084
    You mean marriage, or bunting and personalized matchbooks?
     
  25. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,102
    Likes Received:
    4,605
    White dresses, flower girls, first dances...
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice