1. J.D. Ray

    J.D. Ray Member Supporter Contributor

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    Grammar Youth or youths?

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by J.D. Ray, Mar 4, 2021.

    I can't even begin to post this without wanting to do so in Joe Pesci's voice. But it's text, so you won't hear that. Unless you do by my suggestion, then you're on your own.

    I have the following passage in my novel:

    My wife, doing a final QA read, thinks it should be "youths" (no, Steve, not "youts"), but "youth" reads right to me. Anyone got a bead on what the proper usage is?

    Thanks.

    JD
     
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  2. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    I believe that should be youthage. :supergrin:
     
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  3. J.D. Ray

    J.D. Ray Member Supporter Contributor

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    Oh, yeah, thanks, I'll go right ahead and update it to that... :cool:
     
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  4. B.E. Nugent

    B.E. Nugent Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    For Christ's sake, man, listen to your wife!!

    As it happens, I think she's right on this one. I read youth in this sentence as a singular young male. Youths makes me think of more than one young male. I'd suggest a variation on young couple, which would work only you've already used that term earlier in the passage.
     
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  5. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Your wife is right - youths is the plural form and you are reffering to a couple.. ie more than one... you could say 'the young' if you mean more than just those two but young people in general... but then you'd need to use young fewer times in the preceding sentences if you said " the old man knew what was in store for the couple, and he also knew how little prepared the young are..." that would work
     
  6. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    "Youth" *can* refer to young people as a whole, as in "the youth of today".

    But in your sentence, "youths" is more correct, because it doesn't read like he's making a pronouncement on the younger generation - unless that's your intent.
     
  7. e||ement

    e||ement Member

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    Youth if it refers to a collection of youths (as in a singular collective noun, like “family”); youths if it refers to more than one individual or a specific number of individuals.

    In this case, I’d go with youths.

    Also remember to modify the verb properly - use as a single collective noun: the youth was; the family was; or plural, the youths were; the families were.

    This is a common mistake, but one to watch for!
     
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  8. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    Another vote for "youths." In this case, you are using it as a plural noun rather than as a collective noun.
     
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  9. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Ditch them both and go with "young."

    "He also knew how little prepared the young were...."

    "Youths" sounds awkward to me.

    That's how everyone talks where I'm from. To me, the rest of you like the weirdos.
     
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  10. alpacinoutd

    alpacinoutd Senior Member

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  11. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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  12. Francis de Aguilar

    Francis de Aguilar Contributor Contributor

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    How unprepared these youths were...
     
  13. B.E. Nugent

    B.E. Nugent Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    I still see youths as young males. What about "their youth left them unprepared" though that may not what you mean.

    Or " these children ", which could stress the age gap without actually meaning children.
     
  14. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    I'm putting a vote in for younglings
     
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  15. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Young'uns
     
  16. Hammer

    Hammer Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    as above, it should be youths in this context, but here's another suggestion - take "young" out of "young couple" in the preceding sentence and use "youngsters" - it's kinda more voicey for the old man scrutinising them

    (as an aside, that first sentence works bloody hard for its living...)
     
  17. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    "kids"
     
  18. J.D. Ray

    J.D. Ray Member Supporter Contributor

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    That was kind of on purpose. :)
     
  19. Seven Crowns

    Seven Crowns Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    This is from Garner's Modern English Usage, which if you haven't seen it, can be used as ballast in a container ship.

    youth.

    Blah blah . . . usually means male, but this is in context.

    Blah blah . . . the plural is pronounced /yooths/—not /yoothz/.

    (the important part)

    Youth can also be a collective term for the young
    men and women of a country <all the youth in the
    land>. In this sense, of course, there is no plural. It
    would be hard to say youths of the world in the way
    that we might say peoples of the world, because in the
    plural form youth simply takes on the abstract sense
    of young people generally.​

    I'm not even really sure what it is saying though. I don't follow the logic at the end. Obviously "the youth" is fine, and they are okay with "Two youths ate Tide Pods." But they seem to be preferring "All the youth of America succumb to strange fashion," rather than the other construction.
     
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