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  1. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    zombies

    Discussion in 'Science Fiction' started by deadrats, Aug 3, 2018.

    Are zombies fantasy or science fiction? I was thinking they were science fiction since some sort of outbreak usually has to occur and that ties into the science fiction. Am I right? Honestly not sure. They are a different sort of creature so I guess that could make them fantasy. I've been submitting a zombie story and calling it science fiction in my cover letter, also been approaching science fiction publications. Am I off on this? Would love to hear what you guys think and what genre you would put a zombie story in.
     
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  2. X Equestris

    X Equestris Contributor Contributor

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    In my opinion, it would depend on what causes them. If it's a virus like in The Walking Dead, a parasitic fungus like in The Last of Us, or anything else from the realm of the scientific, I'd call it science fiction. If it involves Voodoo zombies, spirit possession of a corpse, or anything else magical, I'd call it fantasy.
     
  3. Edward M. Grant

    Edward M. Grant Contributor Contributor

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    The majority of zombies are fantasy, because you can't really live for months or years without eating or drinking, and zombies wouldn't be doing much of either after the first few days. But there's no reason you can't write a hard-SF zombie story if you want to. It's all down to how you set up the Zombie Apocalypse.
     
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  4. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    Zombies eat brains, though, don't they? And my zombies seem to have plenty to do. In fact they are getting a water polo team together. It's quite the line up. My zombie story is already done, but I was questioning the genre. It's not hard science fiction by any means, but I also don't really think it's fantasy. But just the saying "zombie apocalypse" means we're facing the end of the world, which to me would seem much more like science fiction than fantasy. But I'm not a scientist nor was I trying to be while writing my story. I'm just wondering if I'm going after the right markets and presenting it the best way when I call it science fiction.
     
  5. Edward M. Grant

    Edward M. Grant Contributor Contributor

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    I think they've only done that since Return Of The Living Dead.

    But they'll usually run out of fresh food by the end of the first week. Maybe there will still be a few humans around, but only a few zombies will get to eat them.
     
  6. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    But zombies don't die. They are the undead. Sure, there are ways to take them out, but I don't think starvation is one of them. At least that's not how it works in my story. It's just really the genre thing that is throwing me off.
     
  7. Edward M. Grant

    Edward M. Grant Contributor Contributor

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    Then it's fantasy, not hard SF. Which is fine, just a different genre.
     
  8. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    Maybe zombies aren't either. My story is definitely not fantasy. Are zombie stories hard sells in anyone's experience?
     
  9. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I think "horror" is a separate genre all its own, not SF or F, and I think that's where I'd put most zombie books.
     
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  10. Edward M. Grant

    Edward M. Grant Contributor Contributor

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    Don't know in general, but my fastest rejection ever came when I sent an SF zombie story to an SF magazine.
     
  11. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I could see some zombie stories fitting into horror but not mine. Maybe this is part of the reason I am having such a hard time with genre. Thanks to all who weighed in on this.
     
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  12. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    No one really cares how zombies work. All that most people care about is that the logic of the zombie, to whatever degree it is explained, is consistent with the world. "Fungus zombie" and "Virus zombie" are tropes that are so common they don't even really need to be explained. Everyone accepts "virus zombie" but the more you explain it, (this virus attacks the proteins responsible for repairing the hypothalamus blah blah blah) the more correct you need to sound to earn that street credibility (and the whole point of doing that is mostly to bank good will from the skeptical fans so you can do something fuzzy, later).

    If you just say, "they got sick with the weaponized Z-virus/H1Z1/RAGE/whatever, and now they want to eat brains, fans of the genre are usually good with it.

    If the point of the story is to watch people suffer through the horror of killing the bodies of people they once loved, it's horror.

    If the zombies are only an occasional factor and it's really about the last survivors in a pissing match with one another, it is probably a thriller, or maybe horror.

    If the point is to say something about society, how we form groups, how we act like zombies in our day to day healthy lives, how we should fear some aspect of the medical establishment, or how space has many dangers, it is a science fiction.

    If the zombies are magic, or the characters have magic despite the zombies being fungus/virus, then it is fantasy.

    If the central conflict is a relationship, it is a romance:
    [​IMG]

    If the point is to laugh at the characters, it is comedy (even if it is thrilling or scary):

    [​IMG]

    "Zombieland" is one of the best examples of cross genre media. I love this movie, and I think it is a comedy, but I wouldn't show it to someone grossed out by horror.



    imo
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  13. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    Man, I love zombies.
     
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  14. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    Me too. :)
     
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  15. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    It's probably an idea to think about the audience for your story. Are you trying to scare them? Horror. Is it 'plausible,' given scientific principles (viruses, etc) ...then maybe sci-fi. If these just happen to be zombies, but the story is about them falling in love with mortals, etc, then probably either fantasy or teen romance. If this is a satirical story, and the focus is on making fun of zombie tropes, then probably a literary genre would do. And etc.

    Zombies don't actually exist ...well, unless you scan photos of Trump rallies for a certain 'look.' So I think you will be better able to place your work, if you know what a person would expect, reading your 'zombie' story. A person who takes zombie-ness seriously (omigod, it could happen if...) will probably not appreciate satire. Somebody wanting a teen romance with the undead will probably not want a story about how the world is ending. And etc.
     
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  16. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    That's it. I have to somehow find a way to slip a zombie or two into my novel. I think it's been what's been missing.
     
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  17. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    What do you call a zombie story with no zombies actually in the story?
     
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  18. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    Literary fiction? ;)
     
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  19. Carly Berg

    Carly Berg Active Member

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    I would call it "hilarious."
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
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  20. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    My lover said if I keep straddling the line between literary and genre, I'm never going to sell again. This is actually a really hard call on if I need that zombie attack or not. Could a zombie story without a zombie attack ever sell to a genre publication? This piece is supposed to be genre, but I think I've managed to fail at that already. I'm 3k words in to my short story and there's no sight of an actual zombie.
     
  21. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Disingenuous?
     
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  22. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    :( Well, that's not going to work.
     
  23. John Calligan

    John Calligan Contributor Contributor

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    Donald Maass claims that all of the longest running best sellers walk the line between literary and genre, and should be called, "high impact fiction."
     
  24. deadrats

    deadrats Contributor Contributor

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    I can't see what I'm doing as "high impact fiction." I don't think I'm doing it right.
     
  25. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Whether they're fantasy or SF depends on how they're handled, as people noted about (one writer at the conference I was just at (maybe Spider Robinson?) said SF was a subgenre of fantasy, which was interesting and which I'm still considering).

    The more scientific underpinning you give them, the more they move into the realm of science fiction. But it is important to keep in mind that this scientific underpinning doesn't have to be exhaustive, nor does it have to align entirely with known science (unless you're writing hard SF). Frankenstein is often considered the first SF novel, but of course the science is really lacking in that book.

    It can also be SF if the theme places it there. There is plenty of SF that isn't particularly scientifically rigorous, but which explores themes like the relationship between humans and technology, social impacts of science and technology, and so on. If the theme is something along those lines, I think it fits into the definition of science fiction whether the science is front and center or not.

    Of course, fantasy can explore sociological themes as well. The line between the genres can become fuzzy. But if there is some aspect of technology or technology gone awry that is central to the theme I think you'll find it more likely considered SF.
     

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