1. S S
    Offline

    S S Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland

    Two Weeks Wait? That's a bit steep mate…

    Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by S S, Sep 29, 2014.

    I think another algorithm should be used to choose who gets to post their stuff in the workshop. Continue to take time and number of critiques / posts into account, but make it so that one can make up for their failure to meet one condition by overachieving in another (like passing by extra-credit).

    For example, I've been here under a week but I have far more than two critiques and I'm nearing 50 posts. I love posting and giving advice and I think this should show my legitimacy, rather than having to wait another week.

    Just an idea. An example formula you could use would be (no. of valid critiques) * (no. posts) * (time on the forum in days) = some number.
     
    jannert likes this.
  2. thirdwind
    Offline

    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    7,352
    Likes Received:
    2,896
    Location:
    Boston
    Well, getting posts is actually easy. People can post random crap just to increase their post count. I'm not saying all new members do this, but it's something to take into account.
     
    jazzabel and jannert like this.
  3. Mckk
    Offline

    Mckk Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    4,749
    Likes Received:
    2,534
    2 weeks isn't really all that long. And if you're planning on staying long-term (which is kinda why the requirements on the workshop is in place in the first place), then 2 weeks really is nothing and it costs you nothing either cus, well, you were gonna stay anyway.

    I dunno. Maybe there're more people out there who're unhappy with the waiting time but have never voiced it. Personally I don't even use the workshop - I think I've used it 2-3 times max for myself, and I've been around since 2010 lol.
     
    jannert likes this.
  4. ChickenFreak
    Offline

    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    8,993
    Likes Received:
    5,503
    I'm a participant on a blogging forum that just has a "number of posts" requirement without a "number of days" requirement, before the blogger can put his blog link up for review.

    Very frequently, a new member will spew out a bunch of essentially meaningless posts until he's reached the required number. Then he posts his blog for a review, and often never posts again. This happens a lot, to the point that the meaningless posts make up a quite large percentage of the total posts.

    No, you wouldn't do that, but others would. As I see it, it's too much work for the moderators to require them to not only worry about whether your reviews are constructive, but whether your posts are meaningful.
     
  5. Swiveltaffy
    Offline

    Swiveltaffy Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2014
    Messages:
    557
    Likes Received:
    201
    Location:
    Roanoke, TX
    I'd say that a system based around critiques could work out. Either two weeks or x amount of critiques (the verified, complete, non-two-liner-bullshit kind).

    ETA: I''m not advocating, just sayin'. I personally haven't contributed to the workshop officially yet (lame and to change, but yeah). I don't plan on submitting anything for a while, either. I came here more for an atmosphere of pursuing creatives to help orient myself. Granted, I waste some time posting garbage (like this, HA) but whatever; I like it.
     
    jannert likes this.
  6. Okon
    Offline

    Okon Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    389
    Spend the extra time revising your work so we can point out the deeper flaws and gems of it when the time comes, mate:agreed:.
     
  7. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,605
    Likes Received:
    5,879
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    Unfortunately it's too easy to post 20 trivial comments including two in the workshop forum. Having both requirements helps cut down on shortcutting.

    Not everyone does this, of course, and some people do it despite waiting the 2 weeks. I can see you've become a full fledged participant. But lowering the bar might mean others had an easier time thwarting the rules.
     
    jannert likes this.
  8. S S
    Offline

    S S Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    I've had a brainwave. Don't tell people on the 'New User' page how many posts are necessary to become eligible to post in the workshop. Also, limit the counting of their posts to three a day!
     
  9. Jack Asher
    Offline

    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,571
    Likes Received:
    2,054
    Location:
    Denver
    ...
    just wait the two weeks, man. Everyone else has managed to do it. Are you trying to get critiques before the world ends or something?
     
    123456789 and Mckk like this.
  10. S S
    Offline

    S S Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    Messages:
    116
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Oh yes, I will. I didn't say I wouldn't. I was just trying to offer suggestions and feedback on the workings of the site. That is the title of this forum, after all.
     
  11. peachalulu
    Offline

    peachalulu Contributing Member Reviewer Contributor

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3,829
    Likes Received:
    2,382
    Location:
    occasionally Oz , mainly Canada
    I felt the same way when I first joined up - pretty impatient but I used the time to write and polish my first ever short story. Time well spent.
    I'm on the fence. I suppose we could let people post early but I think it works best this way as the newbies are 'forced' to mingle, to get to know and understand the community. That way when it's time to get critiqued hopefully they'll know a little something about the critiquers, not to take it too personally. I've been on some sites and whoa, nelly it can be a bit of a free for all.
     
    jannert likes this.
  12. jannert
    Offline

    jannert Contributing Member Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    7,819
    Likes Received:
    7,342
    Location:
    Scotland
    Hi, @S S - I would say it's worth the wait. It gives you time to get to know people on the forum. This is a very interactive place, and the mods and the rules ensure the traffic isn't all one way. You not only have to wait your two weeks and make your number of posts, but you are also required to do a few critiques before posting again after that. I think this is very fair.

    You're already getting feedback on this thread, which will have introduced you to a few of us. We'll be looking out for your workshop posts when the time comes. Meanwhile, you can tell us about yourself and what your writing goals are, or anything that strikes you that's worth saying. Plus you CAN start threads! So I'd say don't be overly concerned about the 2-week wait. Like Christmas, it will arrive eventually!

    By the way, what kind of writing do you do yourself? Poetry, short stories, novels? Any particular writers you admire?
     
  13. KaTrian
    Offline

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2013
    Messages:
    5,566
    Likes Received:
    3,563
    Location:
    The Great Swamp
    Thanks for the suggestion :). Suggestion noted! I'm for the two-week wait myself; helps prevent a slew of posts that don't contribute much. Two weeks also allow you to make your presence known to other members, which means you might just get more critiques that way. But I don't make these decisions, and can be swayed if the case is well presented. :p
     
  14. 123456789
    Offline

    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    6,347
    Likes Received:
    3,092
    Two weeks is a long wait?

    How long do you think it's going to take you to finish a novel (most likely)?
     
    peachalulu likes this.
  15. jazzabel
    Offline

    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    4,273
    Likes Received:
    1,666
    I hope the two week limit doesn't change. It really weeds out people who are just here to post their (usually quite unpolished) stuff. I don't want to have to sift through a ton of that in the workshop. Also, delayed gratification is in my opinion, a writer's best friend. It takes a loooong time for a writer to get returns on their investment, so learning patience is the key.
     
    Wreybies and peachalulu like this.
  16. Wreybies
    Offline

    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    18,911
    Likes Received:
    10,102
    Location:
    Puerto Rico
    Way back in the day, the only requirements we had were 2 critiques per every new item one wishes to post. That part remains in place, and just to make clear, it's 2 per 1 all the time. It's not 2 and then post as many as you like. Always a 2 for 1. Always. This is a very simple way to ensure that there are always more critiques than items up for critique. Nothing is sadder than a forum workshop full of items with a few "looks" and no critiques at all as the item moves its way down the list and on into the oblivion of Page 2.

    In that long ago time this caused the Workshop to be flooded with very poorly presented, off the hip, not even passed through spellcheck, items for critique. There were enough such postings on the whole to call it the norm for a time. This also made for an ungodly number of Wow! Great! Best of luck and keep writing! "critiques" that members would slap out and then post their work, sweaty with anticipation. Most of my day as a mod back then was spent closing threads posted by members because their critiques were shit*. It made for an unhappy atmosphere all around. The two weeks rule was installed to help cut this back, and it has, to a great degree, so I for one would not be in favor of removing that rule. I've seen what it was like without it. The 20 post rule really has more to do with spambot defenses than anything else, to be honest. Spambots rarely invest more than a few posts before being snagged, so the 20 post rule keeps them out of the Workshop. I know that in some other forums post count is a thing tied to status, but that has never really been a part of our culture here.

    * There is a clear difference between being a newbie who doesn't really have the hang of giving a critique but has clearly made an effort to say something of value, and a critique that just couldn't be arsed. We recognize this difference and act accordingly.
     
    jazzabel, T.Trian and KaTrian like this.
  17. Komposten
    Offline

    Komposten Insanitary pile of rotten fruit Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,584
    Likes Received:
    670
    Location:
    Sweden
    I personally value both the 20 post count and the 2 week membership requirements quite high. When joined this forum I did it for one single reason: to get my story critiqued. However, the Workshop requirements forced me to partake in the community and get to know it a bit. Ask some questions, read a bit to see if there was something I could help with. That's the reason I'm here today, with close to 500 posts and a year-long supporter membership. During the first two weeks and 20 posts I saw the true value of the forum: the immense resource this site is. Receiving critiques is only a small part of everything the forum has to offer, and I don't rank that part as one of the more important ones. Questions, answers and discussions, that's where the true treasure lies.
     
    jazzabel likes this.
  18. Cogito
    Offline

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    35,935
    Likes Received:
    2,043
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    The one thing a writer needs most is patience.
     

Share This Page