New round of thoughts on 3rd Person Subjective/Objective

By Xoic · Mar 9, 2020 · 887 · 14

I realized a couple more reasons my writing was so strongly tilted toward objective 3rd (Objective meaning external, not delving into the character's head or heart):

1. I spent a decade as a filmmaker and stop-motion animator. In film 3rd Objective is your working range, unless you want to have a character talking to his cat all the time or some other tricky way of doing what's essentially a voice-over.

2. Just before starting to write my latest story I was looking into how to make a Step Outline or Beat Sheet, and the examples I found and studied were all made after-the-fact from existing movies.

No wonder I was writing as if it was a script where nothing internal can be used directly! To begin to remedy this imbalance I started reading an old Andre Norton novel that I had laying around but had never read before. She delves deep into the heads and hearts of her main characters.
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I know I push these pretty hard, but they are magnificent and I'm dying for someone to come to the Church of Vandermeer with me!

What makes them amazing is the very thing about which you speak. These books take place mostly within the minds and hearts of the characters. The three were recently smashed into a single Netflix adaptation that was just so disappointing, but it was @Iain Aschendale who pointed out to me why this was. A significant part of the story content has no visual component, not unlike the way DUNE takes place in large part within the thoughts of the characters.

Regardless, some of the best Science Fiction I've read in quite some time.

Wreybies, Mar 9, 2020
Wait—Annihilation. Is that the basis for the movie with Natalie Portman in it? I can see how it would be mostly internal conflict if so. The movie was intriguing but ultimately disappointing. I did enjoy certain aspects of it quite a bit though. If it's based on this novel then I'll definitely check it out (and probably even if it isn't).

Xoic, Mar 9, 2020
I see it is indeed that story. I'll put it on my list, thanks for the heads up. The bear was a real trip, as well as several other things. Like Valkyrie from the Thor movies turning into a plant.

Xoic, Mar 9, 2020
Yes, the Natalie Portman film. But... you know that conversation you recently participated in about The Shining, and how Kubrick's adaptation is only mildly based on the original story?

This is a lot like that.

Just to give a small clue (without too many spoilers), remember at the end of the film when Natalie goes down that tunnel in the lighthouse and finds the psychiatrist lady who says some strange things and then auto-eviscerated into that swirly cloud thingie?

Studying that tunnel and what they find at the bottom is the entire first book, and it's not in the lighthouse, and that's not what happens to the psychiatrist in the least bit.

Wreybies, Mar 9, 2020
Oh, I definitely understand—some things that work well in writing just don't translate to movies, and as you said, for the very reasons this blog post was about. Internal conflict that doesn't come across well in a movie. All the Amazon reviews at the top of the page are negative because there's no resolution apparently, but I'll still check it out if the writing appeals to me. I'm not always put off by open endings if they're intriguing enough, and those reviews mostly reflect the general public's opinions, which I often don't share. Going in to read the beginning of it.

Xoic, Mar 9, 2020
There was another movie that I discovered at about the same time, about a female linguist going in with a small team to a floating UFO just over the ground. It seemed very similar in terms of interiority and probably not translating as well into a movie. What was it called—I think it starred Amy Adams. Time to do a little googling and see if there's a book for that one too. It wouldn't be part of Southern Reach would it? Probably not. I'd probably recognize the name as one of the books if it was.

Xoic, Mar 9, 2020
Arrival based on "Story of Your Life" by Ted Chiang.

Wreybies, Mar 9, 2020
Ah, thank you! I had just found the name of it but not yet the book. I definitely like the Ted Chiang I've read (Stories of Your Life or Your Life and Other Stories or something). Another one I'll look into for sure.

Xoic, Mar 9, 2020
Ok, it' based on Story of Your Life, apparently a novella Chiang developed from the title short story in the book I read already. Did I never read that particular story? I need to crack the book open again.

Xoic, Mar 9, 2020
... Aaaand you already said it was based on that story. Durrr!!

Xoic, Mar 9, 2020
Interesting. Annihilation, Authority, Acceptance, Arrival. No wonder I thought it could be part of the 'trilogy'. Plus it's about a female linguist going into a strange place where the laws of reality as we know them are suspended and takes place largely in her head. Do I sense a trend in contemporary sci-fi happening here? As well as alliteration?

Xoic, Mar 9, 2020
Even more than that, my Good Dude.

Both works are firmly grounded in the theme of communication. Arrival is rather more on the nose with respect to addressing the theme, but Vandermeer's books are about a very similar concept. What you mentioned earlier about Amazon reviews kvetching about a lack of resolution - I'm going to be un-PC and say those are people who don't know how to read past the surface of people, places, and events. The entire series is about communication. It gets the most cursory nod at the end of the film version when the psychiatrist mentions that it's inside her and she doesn't know what it wants or if it wants... The entire beautifully executed thematic scaffolding of the books reduced to those few lines.

I cried.

Wreybies, Mar 9, 2020
I'm having the exact opposite problem. I think I tend to over internalize where I should be placing more action. In script form of course I think differently which kind of liberates me from this flaw, but then again, the problem arises when I'm trying to convey the "feeling" and the scene "goal" to the actor. At least it's more interactive but sometimes it can become quite mind bending finding solutions. Communication can be hard. Each medium has its own unique difficulties, but with a hell lot of trial and error progress can be obtained. Perhaps slowly but still moving forwards.

I haven't forgotten our previous chat about poetic cinema and I read your posts but need to reread them once I'm more focused, because it's up for a lengthy conversation. I find them very insightful and well thought of. So far in school they teach us verbally, through film analysis. No book recommendations. (I like Tarkovsky, but god I've had enough for now)!

Malisky, Mar 9, 2020
Hey Malisky, sorry, I missed your post. How do I keep missing posts like that? I think it's because I get very limited internet time and when I'm on I'm never sure how long it will last, so I'm in a rush, and I don't look deep enough into my Alerts.

So you write and direct? Super cool. My filmmaking experience consisted mostly of filming myself with a camera on a tripod and then getting walking POV shots etc while carrying it using a home-made poor-man's Steadicam. That plus years back me and some friends used to rent a camcorder over a weekend sometimes and make little comedy skits and stuff. And otherwise it was stop motion animation,so I don't have much experience actually directing people (alas only puppets for the most part). But I never had a problem explaining scene motivation to them, only getting them to emote properly frame by frame.

I look forward to that discussion. It definitly needs to happen.

Xoic, Mar 11, 2020

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New round of thoughts on 3rd Person Subjective/Objective

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