Guitar Progress [Damn thumb!]

By OurJud · Jun 29, 2020 · 984 · 10

I've read so many articles and watched many a video telling me my thumb needs to be placed on the back of the neck, ideally as vertical as possible. I'm not doubting this is wrong. It's even backed up when I watch accomplished guitarists by the fact it's only the tip of their thumb I can see. It's said this will help alleviate pain and strain and allow more reach.

But, and you knew there was a but coming, I find the opposite is true. When I lift my hand to the neck, to shape the chord I'm practising at the time, my thumb wants to naturally go into one of two positions (depending on the chord). It either want to go come way up so that the joint sits level with the top of the neck. Or it wants to lie almost horizontally along the length of the neck (pointing to the head stock, of course).

What's more, when I use the 'wrong' thumb position, I can get much closer to shaping the chord than I can if I force my thumb into the correct position. The only downside to having my thumb incorrectly placed is that my palm often mutes the high E string, but that said a small adjustment will prevent this.

The images below show my feeble efforts to shape an A chord. One shows a bad thumb position, the other a slightly better one (it's about as low as I can get my thumb down the back without causing pain). They might both look fairly relaxed, but the second felt very awkward and caused a lot of strain (yes, I do try to relax as best I can when playing).
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pyroglyphian and Friedrich Kugelschreiber like this.

Comments

I think I see the problem with your stance. I think. Pics can be deceiving.

If you loosen up your left shoulder, you are going to be able to bring your arm more parallel to the fretboard, thus your whole wrist will be more relaxed and flexible too, because it's going to be in a more comfortable position. The thumb moves behind the fretboard in different positions depending on the chord you are holding. The more parallel your arm is toward the fretboard the easier it is for the thumb to assume the right position. In general, you shouldn't feel your hand and wrist stressed. It should be relaxed.

Imma pm you some pics because I can't upload them here.

Malisky, Jun 29, 2020
I've replied to your PM, but as far as your comments here go, what do you mean when you say 'arm more parallel to the fretboard' ?

Do you mean I need to point the neck away from me more?

OurJud, Jun 29, 2020
If I can be so bold as to offer my two penneth @OurJud.

In your picture, your fingers are sitting together. There is no reason for this. Play the notes with your fingertips. They should look like spiders legs pinning down a meal, not a packet of walls sausages! Get practising, start picking things up (cups, saucers etc) with your fingertips and thumb. Introduce that spider grip into everything. Start using your fingertips for everything, not just your general hand, palm or whatever.

Keep your palm off the neck if at all possible, if you don't you will tire too quickly. Trust your fingers, the tips and your thumb. That is where it is at with your fret hand. That should do for starters.

One last thing, have you started on scales yet? If not you really need too. It is one of the quickest ways to learn guitar/bass. Miles quicker than learning chords, I mean chords are just a group of notes played without moving your fingers, what use is that!

I have put a bad boy scale on here for you. This will facilitate a lot of playing. Also, this guy uses the spider grip with his fingertips. You will notice it is really common.

Good luck!

Richach, Jun 29, 2020
Hi @OurJud , #2 looks okay. Do you find it easier to get your thumb around the back more when playing single notes, rather than chords?... Or is it just as challenging?

pyroglyphian, Jun 29, 2020
@Richach - I remember you saying something along the lines of scales being all I need in my old thread, but I have to ask if that's the case why do chords exist?

Also, I don't put my fingers on the fret board like a 'packet of sausages' by choice. Do you not think I long for that spider leg action? But right now it just isn't happening. and that's fine. I don't seem to be able to get it through to people how difficult I find getting just my tips on the strings, and separating my fingers that you seem to think isn't a problem for me is even more of a challenge. You say there's no reason for me to have my fingers together like in the picture. Well how about this for a reason, they won't separate? I can separate my fingers, of course, but not on the fret board to the extent they look like spider legs. Furthermore, how exactly do I separate my fingers when playing an A, considering all three strings involved are played within a space just 3cm wide?

ETA: The video you've put up is the one I found when I went looking for scales after you first mentioned them, and I found the exercise impossible! Not just difficult, physically impossible!

If you want an idea of how difficult I find it to separate my fingers, consider this: In the exercise he starts on the low E string at fret 8 with his 1st finger. Finger 2 is then on fret 9 and so on, until he has all four fingers across the four frets 8 - 11. Okay, now when I try to do this (with my thumb pad behind the neck as instructed) I can't even reach the E string with my pinky finger! If I bring my thumb up, I can just about get to the string, but it's on the 10th fret wire and I can NOT move it across behind the 11th fret wire where it should be.

Thank you for your support and suggestions, but the last thing I need right now is someone telling me this shit is easy.

Anyway I've now joined up with a website that seems to be the default go-to for most beginners, and I plan to work through those lessons in order. I'm sure he'll get to scales eventually, but right now I'm on chord changes.

OurJud, Jun 30, 2020
@pyroglyphian - Yes, it's easier for me to get my thumb round the back when playing single notes (although if I'm having to reach up to play the low E string it's a strain and quite painful).

But even playing single notes it still feels more comfortable and natural to have my thumb either way up (as in the first image) or lying almost horizontally across the back of the neck (pointing towards the head stock, of course).

OurJud, Jun 30, 2020
Sorry @OurJud, I didn't mean to come across as prescriptive or judgmental. I was in the same boat when I first started! If you hold the A chord shape on your tummy and then separate those three fingers at about the middle with the finger and thumb of your other hand (whilst maintaining the position of your fingertips) you can see what I am on about. Yes, it is difficult to do on a fret board as your fret hand, but creating a mm or two with help greatly. I find it easier to do if my fingers are bent somewhat (hence the spider grip). The other thing you could try if that is not working is slightly bend your middle finger which allows the other two (outer fingers) to slip under it just slightly. With practice either is doable.

Once again sorry for any upset or frustration I might have caused, just hoping these suggestions may help. There are of course many ways to skin this particular cat. Good luck and keep at it!

Richach, Jun 30, 2020
I'm sorry, too, @Richach, if I sounded short. I can't pretend I wasn't frustrated, hence my tone, but I know your intentions are good.

OurJud, Jun 30, 2020
@OurJud Understood. It may just be a hand flexibility/strength thing. If you'd like a suggestion then, since you can do single notes easier with the thumb in the correct position, focus on practising single notes for a while to build up muscular and postural familiarity with this position, and then see if the transition to chords is easier later on. Maybe give it a month of solid single-note practice, and then try going back to chords.

pyroglyphian, Jun 30, 2020
I think that's a good suggestion, @pyroglyphian. I suppose I could do that alongside my course, but said course is already concentrating on chords and chord changes. Right now it's the change from A to D which obviously means I'm only having to reach the first 3 -4 strings. When I start on chords that involve strings 5 & 6 I may struggle.

We shall see.

OurJud, Jun 30, 2020

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Guitar Progress [Damn thumb!]

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