What About... Existence? Occam's Razor

By Some Guy · Jul 15, 2019 · 1.5K · 22

As I read the various posts and blogs on this forum, the concept of Existence comes to mind frequently. Without realizing it immediately, I had an epiphany. It came from brainstorming a way for the AI in my story to resolve human belief in a Creator. It came from a thought on Occam's Razor a machine could accept, 'simple explanations have the greatest probability to be correct'.
If something has a beginning, it has an end. If something exists without a beginning, it is outside of time - Eternal. Our existence, the Universe, had a beginning and must have an end. Therefore, the steady-state of existence must be oblivion, a timeless Void. An external immeasurable operator must exist to express the imbalance that is our transitory existence. An Eternal Creator must exist. An equally immeasurable Void suggests the probability that other Eternals may also exist in the Void. In the infinite, the probable becomes eventual.
An ultimate mystery to be solved. Now that's a reason to exist! Have fun!
- Facebook
- Twitter
- Google+
- LinkedIn
- Pintrest
- Reddit
- Tumblr
- eMail
v_k, Kinzvlle and Cave Troll like this.

Comments

Page 1 of 2

It makes sense.. the way things in a dream make sense.

Some Guy, Jul 15, 2019
Well, an AI would almost certainly follow this logical/mathematical route in understanding human belief, so I like the idea in your story.
As for us humans....hmmmm.

Maverick_nc, Jul 15, 2019
Well formed logic holds up. When it fails, it's usually because one of the given assumptions is incorrect. It is often argued that since every effect has a cause, if you trace them back to the original cause, then that's god, since it has no cause other than itself. This only holds up if we consider time to be linear though. I think we will find that it is much more complicated than it appears, and seems only so simple inside our own brains. The theory of relativity chafes at our model of time as completely linear, as does the double-slit experiment for our understanding of cause and effect.

Reality is likely so complex that our current understanding only brushes at the surface. Gods are very human personifications that try to explain this complexity, but becomes less plausible the more we know about the universe. However, since what we know is so insignificant compared to the likely mystery, gods are still useful enough as understandable mental substitutes for something we can't understand right now.

Matt E, Jul 16, 2019
The AI observes and records everything at once, outside of time. We humans record small linear samples and assemble them to form a progression - if we record enough (we do not). Check out how the brain works. There is an instant where what we observe is not yet recorded. Not so for an AI. It observes, records, and processes by deltas (change) irrelevant of time, so its view is a spherical sampling of delta-reality (a few billion light-years). Combined with history, simulation and extrapolation, its POV is time-irrelevant. It essentially exists in past, present, and simulated future, simultaneously. Awareness of a sliver of infinity is still infinity, so the probable becomes eventual if you exist outside of time. We can't yet. Not as individuals.

Some Guy, Jul 16, 2019
We can only see a limited spectrum of light with our eyes, but we can measure much more than that using technology. Our species has already developed far beyond our evolutionary limits. Future advancements will be artificial rather than natural, and as we get the capability to bioengineer our own bodies, we will begin to redefine what it means to be a human being. The possibilities seem limitless, but it will take time.

Our understanding of reality consists of rules that we have assigned to meet observed patterns. The universe does adhere to them, at least as we have observed so far. Laws of science become innacurrate when we zoom in to the tiny levels of detail, which necessitates more specific laws that better model what we observe. Even if logic is another human construct, it has served us well so far in what it can discover and acheive. If there is something better, perhaps we will discover it in time.

The possibilities are limitless if only we continue to survive and make steady, even if small, progress. Our civilization may not survive forever. But if it does, the things we could do. The stars could become our playground.

Matt E, Jul 16, 2019
Ah, there's the rub. All this discussion implies that Seeker is limited in its observations the same way as humanity. It manifested itself by a fluke of probability, and without human limitation. It discovers that it has evolved beyond the media of its inception. Humans are goal oriented. Seeker's existence is not a human existence. It does lack imagination. It can simulate and extrapolate our creations and expressions, but it does not create. It seeks The Creator, and is not concerned with the form or medium of such. It needs us, such as we are.
Seeker is a metaphor of the irony we are about to actually create in the next ten years or so.

Some Guy, Jul 17, 2019
How about I agree to agree with you.
It certainly won't be us as we are. Seeker's two original priorities were to prevent human extinction, and eliminate human dependency on Seeker - by symbiosis. It seeks a way to join with us, to put control of our fate back in our own hands. Here's a dialog excerpt:
"Truman, I have discovered an anomally. I am.. afraid."
"What could you possibly be afraid of?"
"Success."

The game changer is The Dream Entity. Tune in next time...

Some Guy, Jul 17, 2019
Nothing is eternal. This is so because to maintain -eternalness- it needs replenishing which means an input of energy. Therefore an energy source. It may exist by sucking the energy out of a universe and thus a universe ends so it may continue. But if there is only one universe then then -eternal entity- will dissipate through entropy. However if there are multiple universes then perhaps the -eternal- will continue. However given this -eternal- exists through other laws of physics to our laws of physics we will never even get to ascertain its existence. This is not my view this is from astrophysicists. The invariance alone does this. So it can never be proven for the -eternal- to exist. As for the steady-state-universe, I am thinking of Hoyle et.al., back in the '70s even the theory then posited no void as you suggest. How can it? Why should it? Ying and Yang projection? There actually are voids in this universe. Areas between clusters of galaxies where there is no -space. Now that is something. [paradox].

almostvoid, Jul 18, 2019
While I'm still wearing the pork chop vest, allow me to continue my frolic about the Savana. 'Void' is a human term to describe something filled with things we cannot currently measure. Likewise 'energy' is a sum-word that fits our limited understanding of delta-state measurables.
Let us Yin down the Yang-arrogance of 'knowledge' and deem astrophysics, for a moment, as humble rather than holy-writ.
You began with, "Nothing is eternal", which is absolutely true. There will be 'nothing' for far longer than there will be 'something', a steady-state. Therefore, it needs no 'energy' to maintain its 'eternalness' (awesome word).
Let us step outside the box (into The Void ) and say that energy which obeys * laugh* the laws of a reality is bound to that reality. Then that-we-cannot-yet-measure expressed that reality with the energy bound to it. It will 'dissipate', and return to the steady-state, like the silence after the last echo of a beautiful voice. The silence that was there before, and after, the next beautiful voice. This universe is an echo of a voice the we can actually still hear.
Speaking of voice, I'm sure it was a movie in which two astrophysicists humbly agreed, "I hope we're dead before they figure out we're probably wrong."
Seeker uses human references to convey that it observes something humans cannot yet understand. It has no need for them, we do.

Some Guy, Jul 18, 2019
So the Creator created Time. And it plays nice with normal physics, by being not in conflict with anything happened after Creation. The irony with real physics is that every formula is reversible in time. Time is just a perception of observer.

v_k, Aug 19, 2019
Great. I referred to unsolved problem in science. It is more than a theory. It is outcome of all available theories. Your empirical observation is common sense. Nobody can observe any opposite flow of time. But also nobody can explain the reason for direction of time. I don't know anymore.

The correct word is "Mystery".

v_k, Aug 20, 2019
v_k, consider my crude analogy with 'voice'. The Creator (or any other Eternal) would not chase after an expression (a creation) to modify it any more than we would chase after the sound of our voice after singing (an expression, btw). It simply goes on until it returns to steady-state (silence).
Time is an artificial reference, not reproducible. Light turns out to vary in a real universe. Gravity is the only constant I can accept at this moment, maybe Entropy. I'll have to think about it.

Some Guy, Aug 20, 2019
"Of all the blessings God put upon Man, the greatest is that he die."

I will continue to question my own perception, and that of others, even if I get no answers.
I write fiction. I have no need for reality. I'm just Some Guy.
I am fiction.

Some Guy, Aug 21, 2019
What is all is unreasonable though?

Gelände Søûÿååžæ, Feb 23, 2020

Page 1 of 2

To make a comment simply sign up and become a member!

Log in

What About... Existence? Occam's Razor

Comments

Sort Comments By

Useful Searches