Pirated digital books

There are books and media you can not get in any library though.

 

Oh look. More excuses for stealing.

A better analogy is you breaking into a car showroom at night and stealing a car for a joy ride.

 

You've tried? You have lists of books and media that you have brought to libraries, requesting the help of the librarian, and they've entirely failed to find them for you in their library or any other library in the entire interlibrary loan network? You've checked on all your local university libraries, talking to their librarians, and they have also failed? And that description is true for every single thing that you've read without paying for it? Every last one?

 

If they just wanted that, they could have blogged. They may be writing in order to supplement their pittance of an academic paycheck, so that they don't have to abandon their academic careers and work at their brother-in-law's used car lot because that's the only way they can make the mortgage.

But I'm sure that they'd be perfectly content wandering around in the sun discussing interest rates and alloy wheels, as long as they know you learned things by pirating their book.

In fact, if you went to visit them and told them that you need a car to get to school or to educate yourself in car repair, I'm sure that they'd be delighted to give it to you, at their own expense. Their need to make a living pales in comparison to the importance of making sure that you, you personally, just you, can learn things.

 

It's really bloody depressing that multiple posters have been happy to admit, without any apparent guilt, on a WRITERS' forum, that they've stolen books.

Not just depressing. Enraging.

 

I think that once people have done something wrong, they're emotionally invested in it, and it's extraordinarily difficult to switch to an acknowledgement that it was wrong and they should cut it out. They don't want it to have been wrong, so they decide it wasn't wrong, so that means it's still not wrong, so they keep doing it. Even if they can identify with the victim of the wrongdoing--as they can if they pirate books while wanting to be a writer--it's hard to admit having been wrong.

 

No, I have not gone to that extent of effort. To clarify, I also do not pirate books, I read on recommendation and trust those recommendations. Some books I really want to pirate because of their hideous price tags, but still don't.

 

Hypothetical situation.

You opened a box once and got something good out of it.

Here, I have other boxes. Give me £10 and you can have one of them.


You give me £10, I give you the box, the box is full of shit.

Sorry, you can't have your £10 back.

 

Have you ever been loaned a book by a friend and read it @Tenderizer?

Because if you have, and haven't paid for it, you have conned the author out of the money for the book and everything it took to make it. Please. PLEASE. Explain to me the difference in the end result between:

You reading a loaned book and then not buying it.

You pirating a book and not buying it.

 

You should be going to that extent of effort for all of the media that you pirate, before you can even begin to make the arguments that you've made. Those arguments aren't valid either, but even if they were, they aren't relevant to what you're doing.

 

So, steal the box? Why not just leave it where it is?

 

Because the loaned book is a perfectly legal action in the structure of copyright, and the pirated one isn't.

Copyright is about...copying. You paid for one copy of the book. When you're reading it, you're reading that one copy. When you loan it out, the other person is reading that one copy, and you can't read it. When you sell it to a used bookstore, that bookstore stocks that one copy, and neither you or the person you loaned it to can read it. When the bookstore sells it to a new owner, the new owner has that one copy, and neither you, or the person you loaned it to, or the owner of the bookstore, can read it.

If you realize that you'd like to read it again, you have to go out and buy another copy, new or used. If the person you loaned it to would like to read it again, they have to go out and buy another copy. And so on, and so on.

Moving one copy from owner to owner, and creating limitless copies, are not remotely the same thing. No, there isn't a one-to-one relationship between "a new person reading the book" and "buying a brand new copy." There might be a two-to-one relationship, or three-to-one. But it isn't infinity-to-one.

 

ChickenFreak, please. I don't pirate books, if I were to pirate a book it would be for the reasons above. I buy books or I get them from a library. Those are the facts, so stop saying I pirate books.

If I were to pirate something, it would be to see if it is worth buying. End of. You can't argue against that, because it's what everyone does to varying degrees anyway.

 

Samuel, I'm not talking about books. I'm saying that libraries have, and loan out, both locally and through interlibrary loan, MEDIA THAT ARE NOT BOOKS.

Libraries have things other than books.

Things other than books are at libraries.

When I say "library" I do not only refer to books.

Are you really not understanding this? When I say that you should go to a library before you have any excuse to pirate any media, I am NOT ONLY REFERRING TO BOOKS.

And, of course I can argue against that. "Everyone" pirates other media? So my knowledge that I don't is an illusion?

 

Yea, I really need to unwatch this thread.

 

I don't see a problem with the admission itself or where they (well, we) are admitting it. That's just being honest. We all do things we probably shouldn't. Though if your emphasis is on the 'without any apparent guilt', fair enough, I broadly agree with your sentiment.

 

I did not say everyone pirates, stop interpreting what I write and putting your own spin on it.

"If I were to pirate something, it would be to see if it is worth buying. End of. You can't argue against that, because it's what everyone does to varying degrees anyway."

it would be to see if it is worth buying.
it's what everyone does to varying degrees anyway.

Do you not look at what you buy, or do you just throw money at people and tell them to give you 'stuff'?

If I wrote what you are implying, it would have been:

"If I were to pirate, it's because everyone does it." I did not write that. I would never write that.

 

I look at it a legal way. What does that have to do with pirating it?

 

But with book samples you only get an extract. For car test drives, you don't get to keep the car. With a pirated book, you get to keep the entire book, and not with the consent of the seller.

Also just because analogies are fun: If I'm buying blueberries I look at the fruit to see if it's fresh, I don't eat the tub and then, if I'm happy with the quality, decide to pay after they're all gone. The blueberries = words.

 

I can see why @ChickenFreak thought you were saying pirating is okay because everyone does it. I interpreted your post in exactly the same way, and was in the process of writing a rebuttal, before I saw that's not what you meant.

It now seems that what you meant was because everyone checks to see if things are worth buying before they buy, that it's okay to do so via piracy.
I don't even begin to see how that makes sense though, there's a huge gap in your logical flow, so maybe you've got further clarity issues in this post too.

Though I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve here. Do you really think that you can persuade writers (some of whom are actively trying to earn money from their work) that their isn't anything morally wrong with pirating their work?

 

Okay my tolerance for irritation is getting towards it's limit now. So, I'm going to finish up and be done with it now.

Firstly, don't jump into an argument's response and then put a different context on it. My argument with Tenderiser was about the morality of pirating books. You are now superimposing your new argument about the legality of it on top of what I said. Legality and morality does not always match.

First and foremost, breaking copyright is against the law, no doubt about that, it is illegal and in the eyes of the law you should be punished for doing it.

For the ORIGINAL argument, Chickenfreak, I did not see why I should part with my money to pay for something that I have no way of knowing what it is. I am not advocating piracy, instead I am saying that there is a reason for it - and it's not just "I wanna get stuff for free, fuck the author." - and that it is unfortunate that there IS a reason for it. One that is morally....light grey? In my example before, what is the difference to the author between pirating a book and borrowing a book from a friend. The answer is that there is none. One person has paid for the book, another has read it for free. The author is still down one book sale. So if you have NO issue with borrowing a book from a friend and reading it, but do have an issue with pirating on the basis of it conning the author out of much needed sales, then you also can not have an issue with someone pirating a book because it is exactly the same end situation for the author. You fundamentally can not raise issue with it on those grounds.

Legally. The law is the law, don't do it. End of.

 

So you've decided that two or three people reading a copy as it's handed on, and unlimited people reading unlimited copies, are precisely the same thing? An author should be just as annoyed to make only ten thousand sales total to thirty thousand readers, as to have made just one sale total to thirty thousand readers?

Your logic is not our human logic.

It's really, really not the same, and indeed I can raise an issue. Your logic would suggest that buying a used car, or stealing a car, are the same thing.

I don't know what this is supposed to mean. Loaning the book is legal.

 

Okay, lets refresh.

Hypothetically, I have pirated a book. It is an illegal copy. I am the only person using this copy. I have read it.

I am not buying the book. The author is out of 1 book sale.

A friend, lends me a book, I read the book, I am the only person reading the book. I have read it.

I am not buying the book. The author is out of 1 book sale.

In both cases, the author is out of 1 book sale. What you're saying, is that I am pirating a copy of the book, then distributing it for the pleasure of the rest of the world.

I. Am. Not. Doing. That. This is strawmaning at it's finest Chickenfreak, if you want to carry on arguing with me about all of this, then reiterate your argument with the starting criteria stated in full so I can at least get on the same wavelength to play devils advocate.

You can't even apply that logic on the same baseline. What I am doing is not making anything missing except funds. What you're doing is removing something from someone else's possession and into yours. One is breach of copyright, one is theft. They are different, I recognise that, and I have never said or implied otherwise. You have though.

And this is the failing point of both of our arguments. You are touting legality, I am touting morality and real effect. I am not saying pirating is a good thing, I am against piracy, but I am not against one of the reason for pirating. My argument is based around two main points.

I think conning a good author out of money is bad. They worked for that money, they should get it.

I also don't think that a crappy author should get my money, because they've done crappy work.

What I am ultimately saying to be the final result is:

If I ever pirate a book, it will be to see if the book is good. If the book is good, or shows sufficient promise to advance into something that will be good in the future, I will invest in that author's future by buying a legitimate copy of the book. I will not distribute pirated copies, because other people's intentions are not my own.

If however, the author writes a book that is complete turd, I will not invest in the author, because I will never read the book again and I don't want to own a physical copy - nor will I recommend it to my friends or family, possibly my enemies though.

Piracy is not a good thing, but because there is no clarity as to the quality of a book until you have read the book yourself, it does have a reasonable excuse to exist and be used - and only one excuse, and that is to see if it is worth paying for.

This is my opinion, I can see it rubs people the wrong way, but I'm not going to change it. I know piracy is illegal, but I also am not a fan of wasting my resources, because that would essentially mean I have bought a book, I have spent time reading the book, and by the end of it am at a loss of both time and money and in no way richer for the experience of reading it.

 

I'm an author. I create, market, and sell my books based on the stated rules (laws) of various jurisdictions. That means I am offering my book to the public on certain terms.

If you don't like my terms, that's fine. Don't read my book.

Don't rationalize and excuse and wiggle around my terms. When something is expressly forbidden by the terms, don't pretend that it's okay to do the forbidden thing because you think it's essentially the same as something else. That's not your decision to make.

If you don't like my terms, walk away. Simple.

 

If a book - or anything at all - has a price tag, it is because the creators/owners of it want to make money from it. If they wanted you to have it for free, it would be free. It is as simple as that. By pirating eBooks, you are intentionally going against the wishes of the writer.

And to pre-empt those who might say "I/some writers are okay with you downloading my/their hard work for free". That's cool. By all means, make that eBook legally downloadable for free. No issue with that at all. But downloading pirated content is inherently anti-writer, it is theft and it is illegal.

There is no arguing that, it is simple fact.

If a writer/publisher wants to make a few chapters free to read, that is their right. If a writer/publisher wants to charge exorbitant rates for a book that you don't think is worth that price, that is their choice.

Don't like it? Don't buy it. That's market economy for you.

The problem is people having the self-entitled attitude of "I don't want to spend money on it but I want it anyway so I'll steal it instead". Only most won't consider it stealing because no-one wants to think that they're the bad guy. Hence the justifications.