What does America look like to you?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Wreybies, Jun 18, 2017.

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  1. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    This is really interesting to me that you mention this, because this is how I felt when I lived in Germany. Everywhere in Berlin there are the remains of pre-WWII Germany and also the architecture of the 3rd Reich itself, which is nothing if not monumental and gargantuan*. I mention living in Tempelhof Flughafen as often as I do because it had that same vibration, that same presence you mention. The scale of it and the reason it exists and the fact that it still does exist feels to me like at some point in the construction a threshold was reached and it gained a kind of consciousness, and I am still linked to it, decades later, across subspace. When the Wall came down and we were finally allowed to take heavily chaperoned (pronounced "armed guards") tours into East Germany, we went to Weimar and Jena and I was struck by the time-capsule beauty and awe of being told "this street here has homes that date from the 10th century that are still in use" and I still cannot wrap my mind around that. America is a fledgling compared to any European country, so I am struck that we manage to create that vibration at all, other than the landscapes, which you also mention.

    *
    [​IMG]
     
    Wreybies, Jun 21, 2017
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  2. Orcalot

    Orcalot Member

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    yeah I hear ya , almost like there's some bigger picture, and the universe is trying to make you aware of it by sending out this little echo or something. Isn't it interesting that we only feel that when we leave our home soil?? I mean, Ireland has a pretty ancient history and culture and I'm very much rooted here, but I've never felt anything like my American experience in my life here, or anywhere else.
    aahhh but it's not a fledgling at all really, is it??? Probably the biggest thing that struck me about America in my time there was the countrys ability to basically ignore its own history! As if the country only started with "our forefathers.....". I worked with kids when I lived over there, and it was fascinating to me how even at high school level, there was very little metion in the curriculum of the fact that when the pilgirms landed (yep, my European ancestors admittedly) there was already a huge population in the country with a thriving culture of its own. But dude I think I may have drifted ever so slightly off topic!! One for another forum maybe. To get back to the original post, I'd love to go back over just to see how much it's changed. It's a stunning country in so many ways, not just visually, and sometimes I miss it very much. x
     
    Orcalot, Jun 21, 2017
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  3. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Yes, perhaps a bit off topic, but I won't get a better segue to mention the following two tidbits...

    1) A few years back I participated in the Genographic Study done by National Geographic. I picked the mitochondrial DNA study because it was faster and cheaper. My mitochondrial DNA is New World. I spent months fantasizing about the inner Taino (the tribe that living in Puerto Rico) lurking in my cells.

    2) Honestly, the separation you mention from our pre-colonial past is hard to avoid. The history is not pretty at all, and in the modern world, America is like the child that no one wants to talk about. The one who got in trouble. One little revolution and the rest of Anglophonia snubs you forever. Australia takes our calls, but only if New Zealand isn't visiting. Other than that, the feeling of belonging to the Anglophone family is hard to reconcile. Maybe that's part of why I started this thread. Yes. Maybe. :) Our Media Machine has a one-way filter. Stuff goes out, but precious little comes in. We have to be forgiven thinking of the rest of the English speaking world as "you guys". It's not that we don't know of your individual sovereignties and stark cultural differences. It's just that often it's you all are a big rowdy family at a family get-together and then we show up and we heard the festivities from the street, but now that we're in the backyard, it seems like things have hushed and it's uncomfortable and "Did you invite them?"... "No, of course not. Don't be rediculous."... "Don't make eye contact, maybe they'll get the hint."

    Sometimes. Not always, but often enough to give one a complex. o_O
     
    Wreybies, Jun 21, 2017
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  4. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    Hard not to get political, but if you think any strain between the US and the rest of the Commonwealth is based on the American Revolution? I think you're skipping over a couple key centuries of American behaviour and attitudes (real or perceived).
     
    BayView, Jun 21, 2017
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  5. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I tend to think of america/canada (and austrailia) as the only places where imperial colonisation was really effective - that is the pre colonial population was entirely suppressed and dispossesed (I'm not saying that's a good thing per se, I hasten to add)

    You imagine what africa for example would be like if the indigenous population had been sufficiently small in number to be nearly wiped out and pushed into reservations.... or imagine america if the indians had been sufficiently numerous to resist occupation and instead it had followed the african or indo china model of throwing off the colonial yoke

    It's pretty inflamable stuff and probably best not gone into detail here (or indeed at all) but the refference to the lack of heritage made me think of it - does the US have anything like stonehenge or avebury .. (that is massive neolithic monuments erected by a people long since gone) ?

    Its also really noticeable in the road lay out, in how straight your roads are, in the UK roads are wiggly as a consequence of following field boundaries (except for roman roads... the roman empire followed the same conqueror logic of if we want it straight we'll damn well built it straight)
     
    big soft moose, Jun 21, 2017
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  6. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    No, I'm not, I'm just keeping things light. ;)
     
    Wreybies, Jun 21, 2017
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  7. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I cannot speak for Canada, but in the U.S. there are some sites in the South West, like the cliff dwellings in Arizona and other areas in the desert. That's the closest I can think of in the U.S.

    [​IMG]


    Now, in Central and South America, you get the Aztec and Maya Cultures (amongst others) and their spectacular cities.

    Like Teotihuacan

    [​IMG]
     
    Wreybies, Jun 21, 2017
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  8. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    It may be a cultural thing as a lot of our archeaology was to do with burials of chieftains and such, whereas i think i'm right in saying that the Amerindians mainly practiced sky burial (as did the mongols - its possibly related to migratory tribes).

    Mind you that said we have stuff like the uffington white horse (actuallly thought to be meant to be a dragon), the cerne abbas giant, and various stone circles (Stonehenge and avebury being the big two but also rollright, castell rigg and so forth)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    big soft moose, Jun 21, 2017
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  9. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I'd also mention that American tourists arent may be the best ambassadors , especially in their view of history and historic attractions ( I know its a sweeping generalization but its distinctly the impression you get)

    Until recently I worked for the National Trust and our staff forum was replete with tales of idiotic things visitors had said (not all americans but a disproportionate representation)... my favourite two being

    At Speke hall ( a tudor mansion near liverpool) "gee you havta wonder why they built it so close to the airport" and

    At Lyme park (a big regency house in derbyshire which has featured prominently in adaptations of Pride and Prejudice " Why don't you get Jane Austen to do book signings" (probably because she died about 200 years ago)
     
    big soft moose, Jun 21, 2017
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  10. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    And at the risk of sounding like a curmudgeonly Yank.... Let us all please not conflate some with all. I know you haven't, but I can already feel where the next few posts are headed....

    I've read more than a few online articles concerning "Ridiculous things said/posted by 'Little Englanders' when traveling abroad". Graham Norton regularly plugs these in his shows. (One of the few shows we get over here unfiltered).

    I think the take-away here is that tourists in general, regardless whence they hail, are not the best ambassadors. :whistle: :bigwink:
     
    Wreybies, Jun 21, 2017
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  11. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    This is probably true - Brits abroad have an awful rep which isnt representative of all either

    I was really thinking more of the "lack" of history leading to a lack of historical understanding (or an understanding that history is real ) or the lack of understanding leading to the perception of a lack of history... part of my job in the last 6 years involved managing a working water mill (built in the 1600s) and i lost count of the number of american visitors who just didnt get that it was real rather than a reconstruction

    They also tended not to get that the village was a real village with real people living in it, not one of those mock up historic villages that you sometimes find in new england - hence them being upset that the blacksmith was making sculptures to sell rather than shoeing horses

    I'm certainly not saying that all Americans are like that, but it was relatively common not just one or two, and I wondered if the perception of 'historical attraction' as being something built for visitors informs the idea that america has no history prior to the 1700s
     
    big soft moose, Jun 21, 2017
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  12. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    There may certainly be something to this. I think the general scale of things in the U.S., as mentioned by @Orcalot may also come into play. The size of the U.S. is really hard to wrap one's head around unless you come from somewhere like Canada or Russia that are also vast. The space between this historical thing and that historical thing is immense when compared to the size of a place like the U.K.

    My own example:

    I only spent a very short time in the U.K. and this was at Chicksands RAF in Bedford. Because of the nature of my visit I only made it off the base twice and the little town of Bedford was utterly charming, darling, quaint, compact, and I am sure I gawped like any ridiculous young Yank, and I know full well that it was hard for me to take it in as a place of residence and work, rather than as an attraction because all of it had that look, that appearance of being from a time and a place and certainly different to what I knew in the U.S. And it was all gathered together. Like, how could there be so much of this look all in one area, street after street?* Nowhere in America looks like that unless you go to the very oldest parts of New England.

    *And of course, this was just the bit my RAF pals showed me. I am sure there are large areas of Bedford that are just as humdrum, workaday, and dreary as anywhere else.
     
    Wreybies, Jun 21, 2017
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  13. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    I was going to say are you sure it was Bedford :D (its largely regarded as something of a dump.... like many english towns it got bombed heavily in the war and then redeveloped in 50s and 60s concrete...) of course there are nice bits but its not a town i'd chose to take a foreign visitor to

    this being fairly typical ... lovely old building 1500s with an 1800 facade - shame about the concrete monstrosity behind it

    [​IMG]
     
    big soft moose, Jun 21, 2017
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  14. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I do not remember seeing this at all. My pals took me to a couple of pubs (I want to remember a place called The Castle...) and a little drive along a river/stream where there were gorgeous little houses, all stuffy and prim, roses in the garden. I was in thrall of these airmen. Remember that I come from the generation of Americans trained as youths by Sunday Night Disney that all things magical and marvelous happen in Merry Olde England. And here I was in a pub that may well have been a dump to any real Brit, but which to me just dripped of authenticity and my friends all spoke in gorgeous accents (common as muck, I am sure) and they treated me like a little prince. No sarcasm there. They were genuinely wonderful to me. They asked me about America and laughed at the way I said things and it was just brilliant. I loved it. Add to that the reason for being there. Myself and two other airmen were being trained on a new thing we would be doing, and from each of our respective flights we were the airmen that currently did the job most closely associated to the new thing. It all made for feeling very special indeed. Also, to my utter delight, I had a brief fling with one of the RAF fellahs. But I digress... :whistle: :-D
     
    Wreybies, Jun 21, 2017
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  15. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    The riverside is the most picturesque (its a fair way from the railway yards so didnt get bombed as badly) - it does have a nasty tendency to flood though

    [​IMG]

    (oh on the digression, dangerous ground for him open homosexuality only stopped being a court martial offence in the UK forces in 2000 , although a blind eye was turned much earlier.... when I was serving it was very much don't ask don't tell for the other ranks and 'for gods sake don't get caught' for the officers - although that said one of my best mates in our unit was patently gayer than springtime, and no one cared)
     
    big soft moose, Jun 21, 2017
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  16. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    That's what I remember! When you come from suburbia, you have to be forgiven the dropped jaw at how beautiful this is. To me, anyway.

    And as to the digression on the digression, it was no different for me at that time. DATD was very much in effect for American servicemen, but, be that as it may, The Fates were generous and put us in each other's paths. Have I mentioned in the past that in the little world of TS/SCI there seems to be more LGBT than would one would naturally intuit? Regardless, the little group of friends I made during this 3-month TDY included him and they were very, very protective of him. Don't know how else to explain it. And it wasn't exactly a scorching, torrid love affair. More of an understanding, a few stolen kisses when opportunity permitted.
     
    Wreybies, Jun 21, 2017
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  17. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    The other thing about the UK is that although its tiny by american standards ... you could put the whole country in most american states....its also amazingly diverse (scenery wise) - there's a tendency for Americans (and others) to visualise it all as either rose framed cottage doors , or an urban wasteland patrolled by muslim death squads... whereas the reality is neither (we have both though not the death squads) but in a trip of say 300 miles you can go from mountains to woodlands too historic towns - to urban jungle , to rolling farmland to coast

    Incidentally if you liked bedford, you'd have loved York old town ( i say old town because much of the new town isn't anything to write home about either)

    [​IMG]

    Come to that this is where I worked until recently

    [​IMG]

    I think because the UK is so comparatively small we can take the beauty of it for granted because even in the god forsaken bits the beauty spots are probably less than an hour away
     
    big soft moose, Jun 21, 2017
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  18. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Gorgeous! I'm already writing a love story in my head. He lives in the house away from the others, the one to the top of the photo. His name is Alastair. He has dark hair and sapphire eyes. Rail thin, and pale as cream cheese.... :whistle:
     
    Wreybies, Jun 21, 2017
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  19. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    that house is owned by the National Trust - it's called Hazelwood FWIW and is rented as a residential tenancy
     
    big soft moose, Jun 21, 2017
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  20. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

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    In addition to Cliff Palace that @Wreybies mentioned, there's the whole eastern Mound Builder culture. Problem is, their work is harder to see/recognize from ground level than, say, Stonehenge:

    [​IMG]
     
    Iain Aschendale, Jun 21, 2017
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  21. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Talking of British scenery/history there's an interesting fly over video here of Hadrian's wall (which just landed in my inbox) ... I walked about a third of it last year for charity and its amazing although also hard core (those runners are insane)



    for those that don't know Hadrian's wall was built by the Roman emperor Hadrian as the northern limit of his empire in Britain... the Romans also built a second wall further north about where glasgow/edinburgh are (the Antonine wall ) but had to abandon it and fall back due to over stretched lines of supply and seriously hostile tribes
     
    big soft moose, Jun 21, 2017
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  22. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    It's a nice place, but the other side of the Cascades is a different story climatewise.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    A good place to build an atomic bomb ;)
    [​IMG]

    And then you have the Palouse, in my opinion the most beautiful place on earth.
    This is what its like in Spring[​IMG] [​IMG]
    Summer: [​IMG]
    Fall: 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 [​IMG]
    Winter: [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Yes, it really is like that.
    [​IMG]
    Spokane
    [​IMG]

    Anyway. The Northwest is a beautiful place.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
    Friedrich Kugelschreiber, Jun 21, 2017
    #72
    matwoolf likes this.
  23. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    Interesting - what age does it date from and do we know why ? its clearly not defensive in nature ?
     
    big soft moose, Jun 21, 2017
    #73
  24. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    Cool.
     
    Friedrich Kugelschreiber, Jun 21, 2017
    #74
  25. Orcalot

    Orcalot Member

    Joined:
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    Ireland
    best laugh of the day so far, gotta love it

    lol very deftly handled Wreyb, I was worried the political slant might have opened a gargantuan can of worms, but you've saved the day again!! My hero *sighs and faints* :p
     
    Orcalot, Jun 21, 2017
    #75
    Wreybies likes this.
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