Is a sexist MC acceptable?

Yeah, OK, I suppose I was leaving other people's committed relationships out of it. Though in that case, the wives would be the main ones to blame.

 

Agreed. I have made a conscious effort throughout to keep my attitudes to myself, letting my characters speak for themselves. I've kept an eye on the tone, so the MC may feel bad about what he has done, rather the celebrating it. I hope that makes sense. I've had a lot of coffee today and now I am very tired.

Also, I've heard that Lucky was a mouth foaming racist. Or was that just every white person before the '60s?

 

Ah, yes Nigger the lab. I remember reading that he got run over. Seems unfair that the only member of the Dam Busters to not go on a mission was the one to get killed.

 

Thank you. @ChickenFreak !

[Kicks last night's date out*, throwing clothes out into the hall, before date has a chance to click on the game and get comfortable for the weekend]

(*almost wrote "Gives last night's date the bum's rush" but then I realized that may mean something emtirely different to the large contingent of Brits in this forum...)

 

I suppose it just comes down to, "how far into the politically correct box (as an author) you want to dwell". In -REAL- life, sexism surrounds us all; likewise, anyone can be a lifelong sexist, no matter what his or her profession. It most certainly does not mean that being an antagonist is a prerequisite for a sexist personality.

I have been following this forum for some time, but as a silent reader however, I am beginning to really be concerned about the general acceptance of everything an author writes needs to fit into the ever smaller confines of the politically correct tunnel. A writer should stand for his or her right to convey the truth, no matter whose nose it bends. It is the advent of political correctness that is shrouding the truths about our history. You can deny history; however, you cannot change it through political correctness.

 

Are you suggesting that sexism is "true"?

I get a knee-jerk reaction whenever someone starts talking about decent human behaviour as being "politically correct" as if it's a bad thing... I'm trying to overcome that, but it's not easy.

 

I completely agree, except I'm not trying to get over it.

What some people call "politically correct" I call kindness, putting one's self in the other person's shoes, or, for those so inclined, "what Jesus would do."

ETA: We're living in the wake of Harvey Weinstein (I really don't care if I spelled his name correctly or not. Bastard doesn't deserve it.) The other day I participated in what began as a casual discussion about the #MeToo hashtag. Every woman in the room could recall being groped, touched inappropriately, had her job threatened, or had felt fearful at some point at work. The guys in the room, including some significant others who were learning these things for the first time, were flabbergasted at the commonality of it. Only one of incidents was reported because none of the women thought they'd be believed. The one who did report it lost her job.

Harvey got away with it because the culture told him it was OK. I don't mean the culture of Hollywood, I mean society at large. The above discussion was not a Hollywood discussion, and the participants don't work in Hollywood (well, one did).

So, yes, this stuff matters.

 

Yes, this exactly. To be clear, I'm not at all implying they should't exist. But I think there are ways, as a writer, to subtly shape a reader's opinions of that character. I'd far rather do that than rely on someone else censoring me.

 

I don't think anyone's said they shouldn't exist, though - have they?

 

Hopefully not, but these discussions sometimes start to derail, so I wanted to be doubly clear. ;-)

 

Wow, did my comment move sideways or not? The original author of this thread asked if it was all right to create his main character as a sexist MC. My reply was simply; why not?

Many of the following replies went in the direction that it was fine to have the main character as a sexist; however, he must be portrayed as an antagonist. My question was, why does he/she have to be an antagonist? In reality, a male or female sexist can be, and are for the greater part, looked upon as heroes and leaders. For an author to paint every sexist as a villain does not fit into the realm of reality. Most outright sexists balance their good and bad side with uncanny expertise.

The politically correct aspect of the argument pertains to “if you don’t admit, or in this case, write, to the truth, it didn’t or doesn’t happen. Having the thread turn into a male vrs. female argument only shrouds the original question “Is a sexist MC acceptable as a character. In my opinion, for a fictional sexist character being developed by an author, it is acceptable. The question was not; Is it all right to be a sexist?

 

You have really twisted the concept of the question into something that was not asked.

 

I think, @LesAnderson , it comes down to whether one believes art drives the culture or whether art is simply a reflection of the culture. I'm one who believes art drives the culture.

And nowhere in this do I see this as a male vs female argument.

 

The OP didn't ask if it was all right to create a sexist MC. S/he asked if such an MC would be acceptable to agents/publishers. It seems strange for you to simultaneously talk about "political correctness" as if it's a force of repression in our society and also to apparently not see a difference between what's "all right" and what's likely to be acceptable to those in power in the publishing industry.

Put more simply, which is it? Is PC Culture very powerful, in which case it seems very likely that agents/publishers would object to a sexist MC, or is PC Culture not very powerful, in which case what the hell are you worrying about?

 

Which question was or wasn't asked?

 

A sexist character can be an MC, but I think that takes some finesse.

In the movie "In the Line of Fire" with Clint Eastwood and Rene Russo, Eastwood plays a surly Secret Service agent named Frank. He annoys Russo's character, Lily (an agent), with comments about how "the secretaries get prettier and prettier every year." She takes the joke in stride by saying, "the agents get older and older." Later, Frank flirts by annoying Lily with comments about how female agents are "window dressing" for the President to appeal to female voters, though he also concedes that many things agents do (like running alongside the presidential limousine) are window dressing to make POTUS look more "presidential."

Frank isn't a bad guy, and is the hero of the story, but he also has some misogynistic leanings. In today's culture, people wouldn't take kindly to such brazen remarks, but it's never confirmed Frank actually believes any truth in his comments. The fact he'd take that tack, however, shows us something abrasive about his sense of humor. It's one thing for a character to make sexist remarks for the express purpose of trolling other characters, but it's another thing to make those remarks part of a deeper conviction.

Similarly, Dr. House (the titular character of the TV show) constantly makes prejudiced remarks against his staff, his boss, pretty much everyone. We find out later he uses it as a tactic to keep people at a distance. He's a man with some deep-seated emotional pain, and he doesn't want anyone kicking around inside his mind. If you offend everyone you meet, they aren't likely to take such an interest in the way your mind works. But, beneath the caustic attitude, we can see that House actually cares a great deal. He often does things outside his own best interest to help people, whether they want it or not. Similarly, when people suffer as a direct result of his actions, he sets the humor aside and seeks out help.

Your character needs to be redeemable, but they also shouldn't get a free pass on their bad attitude. Other characters might tolerate your character's remarks or behavior, but if the story is focused on the issue of your character's biases, then there needs to be a foil for them--something to call them out on their bull and start a change. If--as in "Line of Fire"--their sexism (or whatever) isn't the central issue of the story, then there should be other redeemable factors, and the prejudicial remarks shouldn't get a free pass, but you also don't want to take up a lot of room on the page confronting the issue. For Frank, sexist remarks were humorous or flirtatious (however in bad taste). For House, they were a defense mechanism.

Even though no one calls out either directly on their sexist remarks, we do see why they make such remarks, and that's the central theme of the story. For Frank, it's the romance angle of the story, and it fits with his surly nature. For House, it's that he's in deep emotional pain in a profession meant to heal, so it adds a layer to the plot. However you handle the issues of "-isms" (racism, sexism, etc.), understand it's not going to please everyone (nothing will), it will be controversial, and yet it can be done well. A sexist character doesn't have to be an antagonist, but even in fiction, they don't get a free pass.

Most importantly, you as the writer should remain neutral. It's difficult for me to give an example of what that means, but in reading the story, I shouldn't think you're writing "wish fulfillment" for yourself in one of your "-ist" characters. In other words, if you're thinking, "I can't get away with saying this in real life so I'm going to say it through a character," you're in the wrong. If, on the other hand, you're just trying to tell a good story and it needs an "-ist" character to push the story forward, I should see you as the author telling the story impartially, and your other characters can call your "-ist" character on their BS.

I hope that helps.

 

I really like game of thrones. Especially for all the naked women. But let's face it, there is Bree-ann the huge Lesbian worrier and all the inter-racial mating. It stinks to high heaven of political correctness. None of the sexists or any other ...ists are the good-guys. Not that I can remember anyway.

 

I'm staring blankly at you, and just moving on.

 

Yes, really helpful. Thank you.