Is there really such a thing as "pantser"

For me, the challenge (and the fun) isn't finding a story that works and then writing it. It's making a story I've written (or am writing) work. Even if it seems to be going nowhere or fizzling out or stuck. I'll keep pegging away, by geez. If one approach doesn't work, I'll try something else. Sooner or later ...bingo. It comes to me what the story needs. That produces a real feeling of accomplishment, for me anyway. I can DO this thing.

 

I did read the entire thread. This is exactly what concerned me about you. Your arrogance and simplistic blaming when you don't like what you see. You started with an incorrect assumption then started to argue when others when they disagreed. I made comments to counter your argument and you say I don't know what I'm talking about. Get over yourself.

 

I wouldn't be too discouraged, if I were you. I know I would struggle to write a short story. It's just not the way I think. I like reading them, to some extent, but as soon as I start thinking of writing one, it turns into a novel in my head. I guess I'm a fan of the long, detailed and nuanced journey—not the quick development of a great idea.

I suspect the reverse is true for many people—you just might be one of them. If you are happy with your short stories, that's probably your best medium. Do you know why you seem to struggle to get a novel finished? What seems to bog you down?

 

FYI, if this thread devolves back to bickering and arguing, it will be closed (forever? for the time being? Only the mods know).

A common practice to let you guys rethink your life choices, or more specifically, what you spend your time on instead of 1) writing 2) helping each other to write better.

Carry on.

 

Okay What does "pantsing" mean, anyway? Sounds juvinile. But what do I know? I know a lot, but I don't know about that one.

 

This terminology was unfamiliar to me as well, so I looked it up. It's derived from 'flying by the seat of your pants' or simply doing without putting any real thought into it or planning very little.

 

The implication when it comes to writing doesn't mean "without putting any real thought into it". It's mostly about lack of advance planning; it doesn't imply a lack of care or effort in the moment.

 

Good luck. I do think (for me anyway) it's hard to make the jump. I'm always amazed at authors who write good short stories AND good novels. How do they do it?

 

Agreed.

Sometimes when I sit and write the words just flow out, I am not consciously striving to accomplish any outline, or plan, but rather just to write and hope that it may be interesting and I can somehow tie it into the story I've written. I'm not a pantser, but I'm certainly no planner either.

I find that I pants, then I reconstruct those ideas and add structure to it. Like for instance this morning I restarted a story I had written 10,000 words on because I hated the way the other one came out in trying to plan it. However, because I sat down and put down pieces together previously for that story, the words flowed off that structure.

I have also found that doing a character sketch of each person/alien within my story helped immensely. For example, I have this creature named Aphelion who inserted himself into a story after I seen a photo of him. It practically wrote itself. Not sure its any good, but I'll keep experimenting!

 

I read about writing more than I read about any other single topic. I think I understand what I read, and I guess I have reasonable comprehension of current thinking about writing.

None of that makes me a writer. I will forever be Salieri to your Mozart.

I have, however, worked very hard to assemble words in meaningful fashion. I can tell you my process. Part of it, the part anyone with gumption can sweat up, works perfectly for me and I think may be of use to others. Or maybe not. You're a better judge than I, because my final product is always short something. Something's always missing. I think of the missing part as Eine kleine Nachtmusik, for want of a better term. But the foundation, I've got that covered.

First, have something to say. A theme, a plot twist, a Sunday school teacher whose uncontrollable fits of meteorism lead to self-immolation at the strike of a match, whatever. Just have something to say.

Next, explore the message with the written word. Before the thoughts are gone, blast through them. To hell with formatting, speling (sic), anything but the story. I have equal success in this stage with outlines, "shorthand" index cards, or hurried and compressed prose hitting the high points. Rewrite from there.

Or, in my implementation of this process, toss it out. It didn't work, but at least I didn't write 50,000 words on the path to failure. I fail efficiently. The outline, sketch, or whatever you want to call it was pure invention, seat of the pants stuff. How could it be otherwise?

What would come next would have to be a little more goal-oriented, but I'm not sure. I've never gotten that far.

And, now, back to my current opus. I call it The Brandenturd Concerto, because it's like Bach, if Bach had been a writer instead of a musician, and if, as a writer, he was more of a bass thump-bucketist in a jug band than a symphonic force.

No worries. Your book of the month club will never inflict it on you.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

This is my personal take on things as well. That core idea is like a star on the horizon by which I set sail. The ship may sail smooth waters and rough waters, may head straight on or tack, but that star is my guide.

Other than that, I don't place much stock in the idea of pantsing or planning since I seem to fall somewhere vaguely in the middle, decidedly indecisive, ever obfuscating and foiling these tribalistic protestations.

 

His stories have so much structure, he might start pantsing but pretty soon there's not much to differentiate from working to an outline.

 

It sounds like you're assuming that the end product will be more or less structured depending on pantsing versus an outline. I wouldn't assume that at all. I don't see that the method necessarily affects the final results.

 

I wish I could remember what prolific author said the whole shape of a novel was already firmly imprinted in their mind from years of reading novels. They said they just had to "get out of the way" and let the story unfold.

 

I have milestones that I want to reach. Specific scenes along the path that need to happen. But the journey that my characters take to these crucial moments is determined by the choices that I learn they would make, as I get to know them better. If, as I write, I realize that the milestone scenes I want to reach are not something that would happen given my characters, then I replace those scenes with something more real and more awesome

 

I am pantser (no I won't show you my card).
While it may be held up by a tiny amount of notes
and rereads to keep the cannon straight, and avoid
plot holes and the like. I pretty much make the whole
thing up as I go. Difference being I don't outline anything,
but try and have some sort of guidelines to keep things
moving in the proper direction. But on the whole outside
of that, pretty much just write the story as it comes to me.
And I don't have to worry about changing things to make
it better, since there was never a 'foundation' for any given
part of the story to begin with.

 

Um...Actually, that's exactly how the novel I'm writing came about.

I'm a non-fiction writer who had stopped writing fiction. Several nights in a row I had the same short dream about two people. That's rare for me, so I did the thing where you get into a relaxed state and "ask" the people in the dream a question (it's a roundabout way of accessing your subconscious). The question I asked was, "Who are you people?" The MC (again, my subconscious) got all excited and "told" me he's a composer who defected from Russia and said the girl in the dream was his girlfriend. That's all the information I had when I started writing, and I used my dream as the opening scene. No plan, no clue where it was going, no clue about an ending. All I knew is that it was going to be a novel. So, yep, I woke up one day in August 2017 and decided to write a novel.

ETA: And no, no outline in my head. I despise outlines. I'm dyslexic, and my brain doesn't work that way. In school whenever we had to do outlines I'd find any excuse to avoid them, even it meant taking an F on that part of the assignment because I knew I could make up the grade by writing a solid paper.

ETA: Maybe this will help you understand. I liken it to going on a road trip with no idea where you're going, throwing your stuff and your camera in the car, and driving. Whatever direction you decide to jump on the freeway is the first scene. I edit as I go.

 

Thanks for proving my point without thinking you did. You had some idea in your head when you wrote your first words.

 

You haven't read the whole thread. There were people who said that very thing. And then I said of course you have to have some kind of idea in your head. And then they said.... sigh... you are right it became very tedious. I wonder why people started this up again.