Writing a dark fantasy!

I have been consuming lots and lots of dark fantasy/horror media since I was little and there have been a certain few which have impacted me greatly and have really gave me a desire to write something in this genre. However I don't want to completely resemble these things I want to capture their essence and form it into something new, so to speak. Like the dark crystal, one of my favorite movies of all time, meshes horrifying scenes with a pretty gripping plot, but its another example of media filled with common tropes that make it hard to write new types compelling fantasy, not saying these tropes cant be written good of course its just difficult to deviate in a genre saturated.

 

Maybe I'll watch the movie again to see if I can gleam something more, I haven't watched it in quite awhile after all.

 

Try to find some unusual influences to blend together. Just not too unusual.

 

Also, maybe I should take some notes. I usually don't, but in this case it seems relatively fitting.

 

True, too many over the top plot-lines and not just me but the readers will be confused.

 

There are also other elements like the darkness always being some sort of evil and the light being good, maybe I can do some vise versa plot twist thing but even that in and of itself is cliche and tropey.

 

Perhaps I'm over complicating everything with my thought process.

 

I didn't really mean to put several plots together, but just to use a couple of ideas like let's say (just randomly) baseball and butterfly collecting. Ok, those might not be great ones, but you know what I mean? Build parts of the story from these influences, not plot-wise, but just to flesh things out. Map-making and linguistics for instance. But things you actually know a little about or are interested in. It would give you a reason to research them and learn more about them.

 

Oh yea! you mean world building, right? figuring out things separate from the plot but relevant to the world

 

The world, or maybe the main character has these interests, or maybe he has one of them and the antagonist has the other one. Personally I tend to be more character-focused than world-focused, but I do some of both for sure.

 

A good start might be figuring out what really draws you to these works. What's most compelling about them to you? What makes you most excited to explore?
Maybe it would help to watch the movies/play the games, etc. that inspire you, and take notes on what aspects interest you most.
Also, think about what kind of story you'd like to tell, and what you'd like to say with that story. Find the core of the story first, and then build it using the inspiration you've gathered.

 

Yea, I've been doing a lot of this, trying to gain as much inspiration and understanding of the genre as I can through consumption of said genre. I just need some time to blend bits and pieces into a original idea, which these structures I've been looking into should help with

 

The thing is, first of all, what do you mean by "Dark Fantasy"? There doesn't seem to be a strict definition. Here is what wikipedia tells me, and from that, I am guessing that Call of Cthulhu is an example. Is that the kind of thing you mean?

Alternately, it seems that Dark Fantasy incorporates video games like Dark Souls, Elden Ring, and Bloodborne. I haven't played these, so I have no idea about them, other than that they are all incredibly, incredibly difficult. (I've played fantasy gamebooks, fantasy games, and roleplaying games, for decades -- but I haven't touched Dark Fantasy, so I may not be the best person to ask). Sorry.

 

Long Post ahead. Please Enjoy!

Well, I would worry less about having something that resembles other things. There are certain tropes and all that just happen. I find as I write, even if it draws on other inspiration, the story naturally evolves. Honestly, I look at tropes like Building Blocks of a story and you shouldn't worry too much about them. What matters is what happens in between them. I would watch this video, because it changed my view on Tropes/Clichés to where my view are now.

I don't think there is a strict definition of 'Dark Fantasy', but I can try and explain how I would define it. Dark Fantasy is maybe better termed, 'realistic fantasy'. Because it deals with realistic issues in a fantasy setting, or lets events realistically impact the characters. For example, if I was writing Star Wars, I would have Luke and Leia end up in a fight on the Falcon after they escape the Death Star. Because Luke was sharing how he is upset by Obi-wan's death and his family on Tatooine. Leia tries to be understanding, but finally looses it because he making it all about himself. When she just watched her whole planet blown to pieces. One piece of Dark Fantasy I feel is letting the characters have darker emotions and being allowed to work through them in a realistic way. I would also say letting the MC have PTSD and addressing it. One might call this Angst.

Another is setting. Like Dark Souls that you are referencing is set in a medieval zombie apocalypse. So, the world is dying, the rulers ran away for their own safety and all good intentions made to fix this issue have made it worse. (Great game by the way, you should try it! I loved it.) Also, that the main character, the Chosen Undead is just one of MANY to try and fulfil the prophesy. As you play, you come across other Undead who have failed the quest.




So, the setting of a Dark Fantasy is a world that is dangerous in it's own way. Sure, the Lord of the Rings has the Nazghoul and Sauron. However, the world itself is pretty harmless. The environment isn't out to kill them as much. (*Cough*Crystal Caves*Cough*) and there are not many beasts or side-characters out to get them. When I say 'Side character' I mean like zombies, random people they meet, etc. An example of this I would point to is also The Wizard of Oz books. People they meet almost always have bad intentions and a side adventure occurs. I will also say that a Dark Fantasy also again strikes the 'realistic' note again as it sometimes brings in issues from our world. Such as permanent injuries, slavery, rape, PTSD and other mental illnesses, and other darker topics. However, UNLIKE Grimdark, Dark Fantasy has less shock-value? I will explain the difference I see below.

YES. I would say this is a way to easily explain Dark Fantasy. Kinda. Dark Fantasy is more like 'the world is dying/dark, but we continue on with our lives. True, there is hope but we cannot rely on one person to solve our problems. We must come to terms with this Zombie outbreak and move forward.'. In a way, I see Dark Fantasy is hopeful, but bogged down by the issues and cares of the world. Grim dark on the other hand is 'it's dark, and no one is going to turn on the light'. That's my issue with Grimdark, because it doesn't have any hope and everything is a downward slope.

In Ian McKellen Terms: Dark Fantasy is... Dark, Dark, Light, Dark Dark, Light, Dark Dark. - Meaning that looking at this, Dark Fantasy is the INVERSE of Fantasy. Because a character's 'dark moment' could be a 'light moment or realization'. All the dark beats in a fantasy story could be light beats.

Grimdark: Dark, Darker, Dark, Dark. Darker - My issue with this is that Grim Dark is Monotone and doesn't allow variation. I think Game of Thrones sits here, more than Dark Fantasy. Because things keep getting worse and there is a lack of hope.

Anyway, I wouldn't force yourself to write anything outside your comfort zone. I don't really write Romance and that's okay, because I struggle with it.

But anyway, here's a list of what I would concider Dark Fantasy:

Claymore (the anime)
Fullmetal Alchemist 2003 (NOT Brotherhood)
The Wizard of Oz Series
The Chronicles of Narnia (The overall feeling is that of Dark Fantasy/almost sliding Grim Dark)
Land of the Lustrous Anime
The Hunger Games (Dark Sci-Fi, but still illustrates a lot of what I am saying.)

Anyway, please reply with any questions you may have. I am happy to help and I think Dark Fantasy is a very interesting genre.

 

Oh, absolutely! Tropes are necessary, you can't avoid them. What you can and should do is try to find a fresh exciting way to use them (or at least fresh). Stereotypes are similar, but when you find a stereotype in your writing, just change something about it. Or better yet several things. Or better yet write the scene in such a way that there are no stereotypes. Stereotypes (cliches) are different from tropes in that they aren't the building blocks of story, they're just worn out phrases or ideas that have been used so much everyone is tired of seeing them.

Sorry if this just repeats some things you said @Gravy , or from the video. I only read this far in your novel.

 

*LOL* Other than in Lorien, I don't recall much sunshine ... and I don't recall any shit. (I assume everyone must've shat at some point or other, but Tolkien doesn't dwell on that).

Also, once the Hobbits leave home, they're hardly ever happy. They all do a lot of growing up. (The books are very different to the films, as I'm sure you know!)
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I, on the other hand, read through the entire thing. (I tried watching the Dark Souls video, although, honestly, I'm not interested in this game, because I've heard it's simply far, far too difficult. The video is well presented, but it doesn't tell you anything about who your character is, or what you're supposed to do).

As for my thoughts on the other two topics:

Clichés. Yes, it's possible to use clichés for anything. I could, for instance, talk and talk 'til the cows come home. That's a bad use of a cliché.

Or, I could tell the story of a cattle farmer whose wife does not allow him to come home for supper 'til the cows, etc. That's a slightly better use of a cliché -- not great, but at least it's not a stereotype.

Or, I could tell the story of a cattle farmer whose cattle are spooked by (and run away from) an sizeable battalion of light horsemen, whose leader informs our farmer that his horses have bolted, and said leader cannot return home to his lord until the horses, etc., and said horses were last seen on this cattle ranch, so he requests the cattle farmer's help. That's great, the farmer says, except you spooked my cows! Help me round up my cows, and I'll tell you where your horses are.

Now, we have chaos and confrontation! Our farmer protagonist sets a goal (protecting his cows), a disaster (cows run away!), a dilemma (how to protect my cows from this insane idiot?), a way to resolve the dilemma (possible compromise?), and all the other things that make a story work. There's no guarantee the compromise will work, but at least we're on our way.

"Good sir, I cannot return to my lord's castle until his horses come home--"
"Yeah? Well, I can't go home to supper until my cows c--"
"Say it not!!"
"What?"
"Utter not that most fearful and calamitous phrase, friend, or all will be lost!"
"Which phrase?"
"Thou knowest which I mean! Utter it not, I beg of thee!"
"Good God. You mean, I can't say 'until the cows come--"
"NO!"
"--home?"

Cue the ground shaking, volcano erupting, barbarian hordes invading, or the Accidental Release of the Thing Before the Dawna Time. Or not. That's up to you!

"Thou utter clodpoll! I told thee not to say it, but would'st thou listen??!! Noooo, thou had'st to be a wise-donkey and utter that phrase!"
"Yeah? Well you never told me why!"
"Agh, thou art an utter dolt! We are doomed because of thee, dost thou hear me? Doomed! Doooomed!!!"

(I'm so sorry. But this is too much fun)
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OK. Hmm -- I wrote several history/mythology blends (I call it 'historical fiction', but I'm not sure), where the protagonist either has to deal with fantasy tropes in a realistic way, has to find realistic solutions to a fantasy problem, or (in my last book) has to deal with realistic issues -- i.e. slavery, job security, and trust issues -- in an ancient-history setting.

How would you define these?

Um, what about when the Fellowship tries to climb Caradhras? We're never told whether it is Saruman who summons the storm that defeats them, before they give up and go through the Mines of Moria.

The air in Moria is also described as dank and difficult to breathe, but that's nothing compared to the road taken by Frodo and Sam that, eventually, leads them into Mordor. Poor hobbits.

OK, so LOTR doesn't deal with such issues (except permadeath - see Boromir, grief and resulting insanity - see Denethor, etc. Again, the books are far, far darker than the movies).

Just wondering: how would you classify Dragon Age? The original, I mean. It deals with such 'realistic' issues as rape (more than once), slavery, prostitution, mental illnesses, religious schisms / persecution / wars, and so on. Would you say Dragon Age is Dark Fantasy?

Fair enough. Not everyone has to write everything. I wouldn't touch Romance novels either, although I use some 'romance' tropes (e.g. proposals and marriage) in my novels.

I also struggle with fight scenes, though not as much as I used to.

Interesting. Would you say the "Discworld" series (by Sir Terry Pratchett) is Dark Fantasy? The heroes here also have to deal with real-world issues, but within a fantasy setting.

Yes, Discworld (at least the first two novels) are Comic Fantasy -- but Sir Terry very quickly (in his third novel, Equal Rites) deals with a real-world issue, i.e. Sexism. As the Discworld series goes on, Sir Terry deals with many more issues, e.g. gun violence, rock 'n roll, the nature of evil, etc.

His later novels (starting with Night Watch) are much darker, and tackle issues like political oppression, forced marriages, religious wars, the nature of belief, racism, football hooliganism, etc. in believable, mature, and very moral ways. Thoroughly recommended, if you haven't already read them.

 

I think this is the issue with 'Dark Fantasy' as a genre. It is difficult to define, because what is dark is subjective to the reader. I have picked up books and been like, 'haha, you call this DARK'? This is kid stuff!'. But I know from personal experience that when I have given my work to family to read, they have told me it's really dark, even if it was a fanfic about the Mystery Gang on Summer Break. Like, yeah. Oops?

I think that books can become or stray into Dark Fantasy. I also think that Dark Fantasy can have many categories, like, Historical, Political, Mystery, etc. The annoying this about the genre is that it is nebulous and subjective. Not merely to the reader, but the writer as well who may think they wrote the next Berserk, but it actually reads more like a Shakespearian comedy. If Romeo and Juliet is a comedy. (I think it is.)

Also, with Dark Fantasy, there is a thin line between it, Grimdark and just edgy-McEdgeface wrote a book. I am 100% I am guilty of all of these. I started out as Edgy-McEdgeface as a kid. Then, I ended up writing possibly Grimdark and now I sit at Dark Fantasy. I wouldn't say they are plot-able on a line graph. But, like Romance fiction vs. Erotica, they are in the same family.

I think another important idea when it comes to writing Dark Fantasy is the LOSING of hope and/or the unexpected hope. @DyingoftheLight I hope you have finished Dark Souls, because I'm gonna use that for the example.

In Dark Souls, the world is dying (see above video) and you, the player are just another random Undead zombie. You aren't the chosen one. You just happen to get lucky and escape your jail cell. Then you meet another zombie, Oscar of Astoria who tells you of a Prophesy of the Undead. How an Undead will one day save the world. However, unlike other stories, most of the people you meet are skeptical of your journey. Some even laugh at you and tell you it's hopeless. "Do you think you'll do better than the people who tried before you?" The Gods of the world have run away, the cities are dead and decaying. Everyone around you is losing hope and have no faith in your journey. (Except your sunboy, Solaire. Love ya!) However, you manage to succeed in your quest against all odds. (And Blighttown.)

To contrast, most regular fantasy stories, like Lord of the Rings AND Star Wars, the majority of characters believe in the MC or the quest. They will lay down their lives to help and generally supportive. Not to mention that other characters tend to see the MC as good, or noble in their quest. In Dark Souls, you're just another random dude or lady trying to succeed where others failed. In the game, you come across countless other undead who have given up. Their bodies are just hanging out of windows, in a corner of a room and you can take their items to use in your quest. Even NPCs you meet you find their bodies later. Because so many have given up or been killed trying to save the world.

Anyway, Dark Fantasy is seemingly subjective genre. I think tone of characters, setting and plot together create it. Because yes, regular fantasy has dark moments, themes, topics, but I wouldn't call them Dark Fantasy. Again, I feel like it's impossible to define WHAT IS Dark Fantasy, but I do think the concept of Losing/disappearing hope plays a part in it.

 

It's actually a tragedy, and it's fairly dark. But, as you say, that's very subjective.

 

Im sorry all for being gone for so long, I had gotten busy with studies and kinda lost track of this place. I will respond all of your comments now thought! before that however I wanna say thanks for all the support I've gotten so far, its more than I usually have and has helped me get through tough writing bouts knowing that I have such a good resource to turn to for help!

I've read what you all said about cliches and I feel much better about them, Ive been told a ton to try my hardest to avoid/deviate them. So to see so many people clear up this misconception is something I greatly appreciate and will remember to recall this going forward!

I dont particularly love grimdark either but I love inserting grim moments where it seems like nothing can get better from where its at, I love instilling that sense of dread into my works then creating a fairly satisfying/neutral ending to the story feels somewhat fulfilling, which I find things that are constantly dark then end badly tend to not have as you experience all this suffering with no reprieve.

I really like these explanations! thank you all! you've been really helpful, I've been writing some of my novel which has changed and warped a bit since I was last on here, but the principle remains the same. I hope that real soon I'll be able to share my progress with all of you! you are all amazing have a good week!

 

sorry that I didn't go over everything you guys said, I'm kinda on a time crunch rn-

 

Don't be sorry at all. Real life is more important than whatever happens on the internet. I hope your studies are going well and you're welcome.

Again, you're welcome. Tropes are put down, because people don't realize they are building blocks. Some brick buildings are beautiful and others look kind of crooked. People only notice when things seem off.

Honestly, same. I like having all that dark stuff in the middle of a story, with a decent outcome. Decent doesn't mean happy, but satisfying.

You're welcome and I am happy to theorize with you more if you have further questions. And I am glad that the story is going well and I look forward to hearing an update. However, remember to write for yourself first and only share when you feel comfortable.

 

I'm glad I was able to help, DyingoftheLight. You're welcome. (Sorry, I'm on a time crunch too - have to start WFH - which is why I'm here instead).