For a new member having their first ever thread locked is an unwelcoming experience, which seems to put many off participating further, not to mention being a drain on staff time. Therefore after discussing it and hearing various members views on this thread https://www.writingforums.org/threads/potential-revision-to-workshop-rules-your-input-needed.177348/#post-2031712 the team have decided to loosen requirements slightly. Henceforth members get one workshop thread 'free' i.e without the need to first give critique. After that the ratio is at least one constructive critique given for each additional workshop thread posted. We are aware that there will be a range of opinions about whether that is the right call so I'm leaving this thread open for the inevitable discussion, however we the decision has been made and isn't likely to be reversed unless it becomes clear that it isn't working for the benefit of the site
A reasonable approach. My question is how is a constructive critique defined to the new members, and who determines if it was constructive?
I define it through effort and whether the critter actually took the time to be helpful, but there's no scientific method for it. More of a smell test than anything else. Not everyone is skilled in evaluating and troubleshooting literature, but that's fine so long as they actually read the thing and attempt to be helpful by keying on either specific details or relevant broad strokes. If I had to sum up my process it would look something like: 1. Did they read the whole thing? 2. Does it appear as if they thought about it? 3. Did they offer opinions/suggestions that appear to be based on reading and thinking? 4. Are they attempting to be helpful/critical and not just satisfying crit obligations? 5. Does the critique pass an AI detector. Ultimately, the mod team has final say, but it's not like we go through an evaluative process or read crits with the intention of dismissing them. We're pretty loose with that, so long as the critter is showing effort. The goal here is to provide more juice for the Workshop without encouraging forum abuse. And it's mostly for new members. When a forum veteran who crits regularly posts a piece we don't need to look up their posting history. But day one members who post Workshop threads are monitored a bit more closely. Again, it's all about fostering the spirit of constructive critique without making the process appear punitive.
Here you go: https://www.writingforums.org/threads/constructive-critiques.20627/ It's not as visible and easy to find as it should be though.
This seems good. However... were these one-time posters really going to participate otherwise? I guess we'll find out.
my guess is that some of them were and some of them weren't, but drive bys aren't really a problem because giving crit also benefits the giver... so i'd rather focus on encouraging those who want to stay and participate
We're going to rewrite that as cog could be a little overbearing at times, then we'll put the new one as a sticky at the top of the workshop
I stickied it to keep it at the top of the menu. It could probably use a little updating, but the bones of it are spot on. Virtually never. Maybe one out 10 people who post anything on this forum will make it to (insert arbitrary number of posts... 20?). And maybe one out of 10 of those will become a valuable member. Not much to be done with that.
Or "What's with all the dragons in this story? I hate dragons. Just write about everyday people doing their thing."
looking in the stats in the back end we have 64,509 members, 31,186 made at least one post 22837 made at least two posts 5601 made at least 20 posts 1678 made at least 100 posts However i'm cautious about thinking in terms of 'valuable members' based on post count, every member is valuable (with the exception of spammers and trolls of course)
Where can I see how many workshop credits I have? And I like the 1 free. But also, I donno if you want to put a guide on 'how to format', because I have seen a few recently that lack readability due to formatting.
I like the idea. Back when I was new I didn't understand the boundaries of The Workshop and posted a short paragraph effectively for critique outside of it. I was very gently corrected (by a non-mod who hasn't posted in a while), but I thought I'd seriously fucked up my first week or whatever in the forum and probably wouldn't be welcome anymore, ran off and hid for six months in the hope that my shame would be forgotten. Still on eggshells about that one But coming merrily in, hoping for help, and getting locked in red right off? Yeah, that might scare some people away. The new system doesn't look like it'll create much work for the mods, just a matter of shifting the lock to Workshop Post #2 if needed, and hopefully the engagement from the one freebie will convince more people to hang around beyond the first post. It's not like heeding a few crits here will put something like Empress Theresa on the Mann-Booker shortlist anyway.
This was the correct choice imo and I think it will encourage people to stick around a bit longer. A workshop discussion can really open minds and create opportunities, and possible connections and stuff. As was mentioned, there will always be some wham bam thank you ma'am types, but that will still result in experience for those offering critiques. The users/posts numbers were interesting to see! Also made me lament the fact that we'll never see another post by GiantBoner123.
That seems a little excessive, if someone needs guidance on how to use the workshop you’d think they’d go to the workshop rules and guidance forum
I really like the idea of encouraging newcomers to the forum. A 'free' critique right at the start is an excellent way to entice them in—provided they know they will only get one of these. I remember back in my 'mod' days how discouraging it was to have to tell new members ...sorry, you'll have to jump through a bunch of hoops before you can post your work. Most people join up because they are looking for feedback ...and this kind of response from us was often disappointing. It would be lovely to be more welcoming. Good move. As for giving constructive critiques, in my opinion, the best overall premise should be: "Always say 'why.'" Whatever your opinion of a piece happens to be, there will be a reason you feel the way you do. It's not helpful to the writer to say, "I love it." So tell the reader why you love it. What grabbed your attention? What kept you reading? It doesn't have to be something profound, but unless you can say WHY you loved it—so the writer understands what they did right—it's just a vote, not a critique. The more you can dive into the 'why,' the more helpful your critique will be!
