And if you are wrong? So what. That is part of the learning process. You learn from your mistakes and try again. Who cares if you are wrong? And why do you care if you are wrong? I have mad a couple mistakes myself with reviewing, mostly do to the battle of UK spelling and American spelling, but I don't care. I learn something, I learn hey if I ever want to write a British story I know how to spell it. I don't care if I am wrong, I make mistakes its part of being human, and its part of the learning process. And your idea is basically kinda like what I want to do with a newbie bootcamp. Like the Word Games in this thread they don't count to your overall post count because that would be unfair if you got my bootcamp class and that is your 20 post. And basically what I do is I have them give a review on something, maybe I post new threads of newer stories and have them post a review in my thread first. I help them explain better and then I or who ever wants to be the coach gives them permission to post it. Or something along those lines.
You beat me to it, Rem. Sticking your neck out is the best way to learn. If you're wrong, or if someone has a different opinion, you get to see it and learn from it. No matter which end of a review you're on, keep an open mind and check your ego at the door for best results, Any day you learn something new is a great day.
I agree with this, but I have a question. Did you purposely spell best with a "n" and the new with a "b". Or were those real typos.
So yes you did it on purpose then, we can cover it up with just that. They'll never know anyway right.
Yes, its off topic. My only problem I see with my idea is what everyone else has announced. Or I should, which busy moderator has the most time out of his busy running shift. I mean I notice how well and efficiently you guys work, but soon or later somebody is going to get swarmed. Unless we get a Newberator, joking just needed to use the word.
I think the idea of a post minimum is lovely in theory but would be appalling in practice. Cogito, you yourself have commented on the tendency to post first and read the rules after, leading to a quick "This was great! A+++" pair of reviews and then a second attempt. What would a posting limit do except extend that even further? Even apart from making more spam, a posting requirement outside of the Workshop (and I fully support that name change, by the way) would be overly daunting. I love to talk, and I love to argue, but I'd be turned away by any kind of rule like that. I really liked the "two constructive reviews" format, but an arbitrary "# Posts elsewhere" rubs me the wrong way. Honestly, there's not a lot to do in the rest of the forum if you don't HAVE general questions, or even more likely don't like to answer general questions. Basically, while I agree that everyone should take the time to soak up the ambiance before trying to score adulation with their awesome stories, I think any rule trying to force it will end badly, either producing more annoying "fill the post count" messages, scaring away timid newcomers, or causing those disinclined to idle conversation to depart in disgust. I think the current setup, in which new members are encouraged to post in the Intro forum (at which point they get the lecture) is a good one. I also think that changing the names would be a tremendous help. But mostly, I think the best way to get people to engage with the forum first is to have an engaging forum.
I just read this post, and would like to admit that my tenacious attitude made me join so quickly, just to get a story up, that I shimmied past the rules straight to the review room. I even apologised in the new members introduction thread, for not having the time to introduce myself fully, because I had to post a story! Of course, I was immediately blocked by Cogito, and made to slow down, take some time to review, and comment, which I did. I was a perfect example of how NOT to join this forum. Then, in the beginnings of my affiliation with how things work around here, I was guilty of posting too much, at one point, my name was plastered at the top of the short story review threads to the point that it was embarrassing, not just comments on other people's work but too many stories, in too short a time. I noticed that they weren't getting reviewed as much as other work, and again backed off. So, I finally slowed down, and started to take the time to observe more, explore more, and comment more, and guess what; I started to learn more. I consider this forum to be a very valuable tool for aspiring writers, the work I do outside of this forum has benefited fifty fold, than if I was left to my own devices. Only now do I realise how my impatience, did not benefit me when I first joined. Maybe, when a new person joins, if there were an initial 'Tour Guide', like a little initiation system or the review room was locked from submitting new threads until such time as a moderator was satisfied, or twenty posts etc..., it will initiate newbies in a more educatory way, and teach them how it REALLY works. At the moment, it is very easy to just join and post a story up for review. It would have worked for me.
I think this is a really good idea. . Same here. I felt the same way. The more I reviewed the better I got, but I still made mistakes. I think it's one of the best way to learn: from mistakes. Nobody really pays attention to it and you shouldn't either- besides learning from them.
One site I used to be a member of--not a writing site, though--had a rule that you couldn't post a thread until you had five posts. It was still a vibrant and lively site. I had no issue with that as a new member. It's really not that hard to get in five posts if the site is reasonably active. As for the reviewing rules, there's a site, PFFA.org, where they have tiered reviewing sections, and a strict "three reviews to one posted work" rule. It too was a very large and fairly active site. Even though they were much harder on reviews than we are here. So I don't think it would be as much of a problem to implement that here as many people assume. Those sratetgies do in fact encourage a quality and engaged membership. I would like to agree with the idea of section name changes, because I think it would help if it were made more clear that this is a workshop site. On other sites, I constantly run into members who seemt to "showcase" their work. Honestly, I tell them that's not what the site is for. And generally, they are willing to accept that. But making it clearer here would cut down on friction.
Are you trying to say this isn't an engaging forum? This is a probably the most engaging forum on the world wide web right now. Its made by adults, or I should say it feels smart here. As a guest I saw many great things here, other then the novel section, I'm the rare being who is to nervous to even want to show lame work, I saw the general writing, and the other sections, then I said cool. So I joined with the knowledge that I had, and even now I'm getting more knowledge. This learning process and this idea process its pretty engaging to me at least. And as I have been saying this whole entire time if new members leaves because they don't like the rules, then that is fine that wouldn't be a good member anyway because what of the other rules, will they soon not start liking those and threat to leave about those rules. You have to take in a little of consideration, new members are like internet bullies. <---No offense.
I don't think scattercat is saying that this isn't an engaging forum and I generally agree with what they said. By creating a posting limit I think that people would post once sentence responses and poorly thought out reviews to get to 20 posts just so they can post their story. I know when I first joined this thread I wanted to post a story of my own so I did two reviews (I thought they were quite thought out) and posted my own story. If I had been faced with 20 posts, however, who knows how thought out my posts would've been? Also, while 20 posts may not be hard for some people it is for others. I usually respond to only threads that strike me in some way; perhaps there is a very well written story, something that I liked a lot, or something that I think I can definately help with. Either way I think that the 20 post limit will create a little more spam, though I'd be alright with upping the amount of constructive, well thought out, productive reviews before posting your first thread.
Again, I wouldn't announce a "20 post" requirement in the error message. I would simply say that Junior members may not post their eotk here, and refer them to the Rules. In the rules, they would learn that Junior membership is only the first 20 (currently 30) posts, but would also have to see our other rules in order to discover that. The rules would also direct them to an introduction to the Critique Workshop so they would learn the hows and the whys of posting there when they have taken a short time to get to know their way around. They would also see that if they just want to post their stuff, we have the member blogs. ]If we get spam after that, it will be obvious they are persistent and have no intention of trying. Easy problem, and I don't expect to see many of them like that. Most of the "litterbug" posters will simply go somewhere else. And when they badmouth us over our policy, experience shows we will actually get more members who think our way is a good idea; free advertising.
I like that idea. However, would junior members still be able to post critical reviews and such wherever they wanted? It would just be that they could not start their own thread until 20 posts correct?
Oh absolutely! They can begin posting reviews right away. And the reviewin requirement would remain in place as well (with the word constructive added to the error message).
My Opinion On Reviewing I have only been here a short while, and I have given three critiques. I think the more I do the better I'll get at it. There are some forumns that I have no interest in and others I'm not experienced in to carry a discussion, so I won't bother with them. I personal enjoy reading others work and giving advice as I know it and if I'm corrected in the prosess, then I have learned something. I have also welcomed new members as often as I can and if there are too many to welcome separately, then I will welcome all at once. Actually, I personally emailed Daniel asking if I could be a reveiwer because I liked doing it, but I haven't got a reply yet. As far as following rules, you are going to get certain people that don't and certain people that do. The rules are there for a reason and like some have already mentioned, if they get ticked and leave then they wouldn't have been contributing members anyway, so good-bye. I truly believe it is only out of respect and good etiquette to review others in order to get the same back. I myself haven't posted anything story or poetry wise because I have only a small amount of each. When I have something I think is worthy of a critique I will post it. I'll follow whatever rule is in place. If the member really wants to be here to grow and learn, then he/she will follow the rules. Ameasha
I am very new to this site, and have been opening doors and looking in corners for the last day. This place feels warm and cozy to me. A place I looked for, for some time. Please keep in mind that everyone is different, in a social aspect. I am very bookish, meaning that, beyond the reviews, I may not post twenty posts in a year. I am not social by any means, nor it is my desire. I want to be able compare my work with other artists. I want to be able to reinforce what I have learned, so that when I am off-line, writing, my plots have a few more layers. By reviewing I help myself by helping others. This is what I see as the motive operandi of this site. I am concerned that what I am hearing is that if I do not become more socially involved in the site, then I can not belong. I can hear the echos of all the doors slamming, and it is a frieghtful sound.
