Congrats on finishing it. I am close to finishing my first draft of the first novel i have written. I am slow to finish because i have spent so much time on it, it almost seems depressing. But after i finish my first draft i plan to have several people read it and give me their thoughts on it. Then i will go from there, dissecting all of it piece by piece.
Yip, did end up rather lengthy, but its a fantasy novel, with multiple character viewpoints. And at 200 000 its not what you would imagine. This isn't your typical long-winded epic fantasy novel. In fact, most of the book takes place over a single day. I haven't read a book in this genre that's similar to what I've written, which probably means the chance of getting it published is next to nothing, even without the high word count. I do have a plan though. This book is just the first( its actually half the book I set out to write would you believe it) in a projected series of four. If I finish say the first three and then submit all of them to a publisher, it might better my chances. Is that a wise approach?
Sounds like Ulysses, but fantasy. Which is a pretty massive comparison to live up to. But if you present a novel that long about a single day, the comparison will be made. Hope you're up to it
there's nothing wrong with overwriting for your own pleasure... but if you want to sell, you must write what publishers buy... and i doubt any would buy a ms that's double the size they say they want... joker... since it's fantasy, you can probably get away with submitting 120k, and with a few publishers, maybe even up to 150, but 200 is still way over what a new writer can get away with... especially if it's all taking place in a single day! as for submitting more than one ms at the same time, i can almost guarantee you that nobody will accept more than one at a time and even if you just query about a series and not only the first stand alone book, you'll most likely get nothing but rejections, if they even bother to reply... no one buys a series from a new writer, whose first book they can't be sure will even sell well enough to cover their investment... so, if you want to have the best chance to sell it, make that first one as marketable as you can, which means getting it down to a size that they'll take seriously... it's ok to say it's the first of a series you have 'in the works' but be sure to show it'll sell on its own... good luck... hugs, m
That's more like the least wise approach. What you need to do if you're very serious about publication is this: cut a lot of the content down, by ranking it based on what directly furthers the plot, and what's more aesthetically valuable. Aim for 70k-90k words; that's generally the maximum any publisher will accept in a single submission. That, or only submit three chapters or so to gauge interest, and be sure to include a note that it's a very long manuscript. When publishers regard unknown authors, they can't be sure of consistency or longterm value; will you even write that second book of four that you're considering? They can't know that, so they'll generally assume the worst. Before anything, get it down to a tight second or third draft. Put it forward to editors like me, and promise me royalties should the book become a success. The point is, 200,000 won't be accepted by any serious publisher. If you could even find two solid ending points and split the first draft itself into a trilogy (the first of two trilogies, since the math works out nicely), you'd have the desired word length for each, and still keep the majority of your content before professional editing comes along and makes you want to /wrist and die. Good luck fella.
Thanks for all the advice. After reading your replies, I've come to one conclusion. My story's just too big for a first novel. There's too many characters and too many events that need to happen. To be honest the current ending isn't even a solid one since its already part of a split, so the chances of finding a conclusion in the middle of this book are remote. I think I've got a new plan, the only one that seems feasible. In order to get this book published I must veer from it, and write a completely different stand alone book thats under 100k, and I need to make so mind-blowingly brilliant that it actually gets published. Then I'll cease being a unknown, beginner writer, and that'll change the limitations of a new submission. Time to get crackin, this new book will be a lottery ticket that takes a year to fill. The sacrifices I make for my 200k story...
Wow - I apparently got the wrong scoop; I was under the impression that for a published adult fictional novel, 90 - 100k words was the norm. ?
you're about right in re submissions, emmy... the most often preferred range nowadays, for a first novel by a new, unknown writer is 80-100k... under 80k wouldn't be considered by most publishers, if it's for the adult market... but the average size of published novels by more seasoned writers is somewhat higher... and all novels are 'fictional'... if a book is not fiction, then it's not a novel, but a 'non-fiction' book that might be a 'memoir'; 'true crime'; 'how-to'; 'self-help' or so on...
I've finished the first rough draft of a novel. I've edited it and had many thoughts on changes that should be made to it, not only for the sake of this particular story, but for further stories in the series I have many ideas for. The problem is, none of my family do much reading, my friends are all too busy to take a look at it either, and I'm scared that if I post it somewhere, it'll get stolen. What to do?
Try your best to convince a friend to read your draft - you need a real, honest, best friend type to give you face to face feedback. Bribe them if you must - but make them the person you write for in the first place, make them feel valued - they are your trusted reader. I like to finish what I'm writing - leave it for 6 weeks - edit it for basic errors - then turn it over to my trusted reader (my brother in my case). I understand your concerns over posting online: once its out there its out there! Comments that come back are often varied and you cant be sure of the credentials of those giving the advice. Try your best to get someone you respect to read your work for you. Don't be shy - they will probably be flattered you asked. Good luck, Luke
Showing to friends and family for feedbacks will be of little help as has been said in this site in so many other threads. Simply because you won't get an unbiased feedback. First, you go for more edits.... posting excerpts in forums such as this will help in that. Post an excerpt and you will get the general idea of what is wrong (if there is any) in your writing which will help in your editing process. Also you should read good books in the genre you are writing with an alert eye on how the writers do their job. Then return with a fresh eye and edit edit edit.... until you feel that you can't do anything more. You can then try submitting to few publications to see how they received it or before you do that you can get professional editing help if you are still not satisfied. On your concern of theft: Stealing a small excerpt of your novel is not going to be of any help to the stealer.
rhsexton, Unless the individual(s) are avid readers, they probably would not be much help in what you're asking them to do. If they're not really motivated, or too busy, you're not going to get much of value out of them either. What you may have to do is to set your project aside for a month or two (it may sound like a long time but in the big publishing scheme of things it's not), work on something else, and then come back to it. Re-read, edit, make notes and fixes. Then, set it aside and do it again. In truth, you should not give someone a first draft to read. You should refine it, otherwise they will 'catch' errors you would normally catch yourself, and their focus will be on those and not the things you are not likely to notice. I say, 'not likely' because you can catch much on your own with a strong effort and attention to detail. You might try to find a crit partner or a crit group (in your area or online), but in the end, much of the responsibility falls directly on the writer's shoulders to get their work ready for submission. Good luck! Terry
As I read through my first draft and highlight and make notes on what to change and improve, I realize that at the end of the day, I've got more highlights and notes than words in the story. So I got to wondering where others stand on their first drafts. How do you rate yourself on a scale? 1- A monkey with brain damage could write better. 2- A monkey without brain damage could write better. 3- It would be pretty good... if I were three years old. 4- If anyone were to read this unedited, I would have wear a sack over my head. 5- I can actually read it without vomiting. 6- Not too shabby. I only have to tweak almost everything. 7- Did I edit this already? It looks way too good to be first draft. 8- Revision? I don't need no stink'n revision! 9- My first drafts make best-selling authors look like ameatures 10- They're going to use a giant laser to etch my words permanently onto the surface of the moon. I range anywhere from 1-7, but on average I'm about a 4
10, definitely. Nah, usually 5-7... I edit as I go along, so unless a first draft is particularly dodgy on subject matter, or hastily written for fun rather than a serious attempt at a novel, I usually think I can at least share it with people... maybe not the WORLD (certainly not to the people in times to come gazing wistfully up at the moon and wishing they could write as well as that...) but definitely I won't cry at the thought of someone happening to spot a few pages of it somewhere. I'm also very used to workshopping, and so I'm not too secretive about my pages, nor do I feel the need to polish obsessively before anyone else sees them.
Haha, no higher than a one. I write the scenes in a weird order but realize I'm moving to fast so I add other scenes that come to me, but not in order. That and I don't edit until I'm done handwriting and then typing it. It looks like random garbage for a long time.
I'm a 5 or 6. I do a lot of rewriting as I work on the first draft. I'm not one of those "don't even think about editing until the last word is down" writers. I like to be proud of my day's work even if it's only a first draft, so I work on it pretty hard.
I always expect it to be 1 (seriously, see... I am not laughing ) because I have no faith in my abilities at all, but after reading it, it is usually 5, and it makes me quite happy I am a very lazy editor, so usually I end up making very few changes in the final draft. That's not a bad thing, the ability to find ways to improve your first draft is a very good thing.
1-3 for me personally a first draft for me will always be rubbish and I have no intention of changing that, it is the chance to get the story out and ideas flowing. I don't yet know the characters so dialogue is flat - they are a bit flat, I don't bother making my Abbot verbose or Bessie Malaprop - Socrates swears way too much. The flow won't be so good. There will be thousands of words of uninteresting back story. I see 0 point in correcting grammar, punctuation, tense etc until I know what is staying. I add most of the humour later. I use lazy plot devices and way too much magical stuff lol With my first novel I referred to it twice when writing the second draft there were two scenes that couldn't be written better than I did the first time. Oh and a line about food remained. With my second I am paying even less attention to the quality of the first draft. Having said that I can still produce a few paragraphs that have some very good author friends getting excited about, the story is now on its way to being great. The characters are now forming themselves and I am able to bash out thousands of words everyday. The first draft will be completed to around 80-100,000 words hopefully by the end of this month. (I started it last Wednesday properly but has taken me three weeks to finally decide how to take the story.) I am pleased with my first draft - I wasn't sure I would be I was delighted with my first novel's draft now I giggle reading it. This one is actually better in someways because my skills have improved. I also love the story can't wait to read it complete/
I like to think my rough drafts are about a six... They're legible, formatted, in the right order, I don't have to edit my spelling and grammar too much, and my story is already there. After the rough draft, I just have to go back and make it better, however the story calls for that to be done. Then I have to make it better again. And again. And then the problem is stopping.
Yeah, and I do actually enjoy the editing process and seeing the improvements unfold. Sometimes I even edit as I write a first draft, and I only get maybe 100 words written, but they are all-- at least pretty close to-- the right 100 words.
ha ha ha. Um, uh, I'll take a number 6 please! Seriously, that's what I say to myself. My grammar isn't too bad, and neither is my spelling. My main concern is plot and character developement. I'm pretty gray in those two areas and in that order. But we shouldn't be so hard on ourselves. It's just the first draft.
Like the song says 'It's not where you start, it's where you finish' that counts. Let's aim for number 10.
