I'm glad this question was posted as I'm seriously considering enroling in an MA in creative writing next year (in Australia). I've heard so many arguments against creative writing degrees which I think are just ridiculous. No one questions people studying art eg. sculpture, painting etc at tertiary level, but for some reason with writing there's this idea that it should come naturally and that writers should be toiling away alone in a garret somewhere. Writing is a craft and it needs to be honed, and in my opinion creative writing higher degrees give writers invaluable opportunities to critique each other and refine their writing skills, and really strive for a standard of excellence in their work. Many of the award winning writers in Australia have come out of MA courses and this in itself is proof of how valuable they are. I am planning to enrol because I love everything to do with books and the opportunity to continue writing books and talking about them with other like-minded people is my idea of heaven! I also like the idea of having that structure there to help me focus my ideas and having the constant feedback as I'm writing.
I hope this is an appropriate forum for this sort of topic. If not, I apologize but I couldn't think of where else to put it. Basically, in the next couple of weeks, I will be attending as a guest into a 5th grade classroom going over the topic of creative writing and the process. Before I actually attend however, the teacher and I wanted the kids to work on a bit of a project to help prep them. I have some ideas of an outline that I can have them work on, but I'm looking for ideas that would appropriate for this age group. I haven't decided if I want to split them up to one group who thinks of the characters while another group thinks of a plot and another group creates the setting, etc? Or if I just want to do a basic "here's an outline of how a typical creative process of writing is completed, so start writing." type of thing. I'd like to make it a fun project for them. *Edit* Oooh, maybe I'll have them go home, look through magazines or newspapers and cut out a picture of a living being (person, animal, etc) and a picture of a place (desert, forest, planet, etc). Then write a brief story tying the two together, from either the creature's perspective or from a third person narrative. Have them describe the creature not only from a physical description, but from a more personal level. If they are an animal, can they talk? Are they part of a group? What do they do? Why are they where they are and how did they get there?
I am a 4th, 5th, 6th grade teacher... I think a lot of what you ask the kids to do depends on a couple of factors. It would be best if you know about these factors before you plan anything. How often do they write in general? How often have they done creative writing? Have they been introduced to 2nd person? What is the ability level of the group as a whole? How much time do you have? Is this a lesson you intend to do in one sitting, or will you be assigning homework and then continuing? If you will be assigning homework, how is the class as a whole about homework return? Regardless of the answers, I think your magazine prompt idea is a great one, and I might actually steal that. The whole group (some doing setting, some character, some plot) is also a good idea. How you actually teach both ideas will be dependent upon the questions above. My kids are getting better, but we are in the second quarter of me teaching story (and essay) writing pretty hard. When we started the year, there was a core group of kids who were avid readers, most of which, took to my initial instruction pretty naturally, and fairly competently wrote stories. There was a large group of kids though, who just don't get it. I think some of it, developmentally, is hard for them to grasp. The concept of a coherent plot, well developed characters, and setting is almost beyond their grasp. There are several ways in which they don't get it, but two common ways are: action, action, action.... with no real plot, and you feel like you get whiplash from reading it. OR dialogue, dialogue, dialogue,... again with no real plot, and again you have no clue what you just read, and, most don't have the first clue about how to write dialogue except that they like to put quotes on things. My kids are getting much more proficient, but we've been doing it almost non-stop for about ten weeks now. A couple of thoughts: Whatever you have them write, insist that they keep it small (preferably less than a hand written page) to start. Focus on outlining the story before actually writing the story (you can catch a lot of holes this way) I do not use the same writing process that I teach my kids, and I give more leeway to my more capable writers, but a large majority of kids this age need a lot of structure in order to produce anything that can be understood. Great prompts, choice, and interest are incredibly important as well. Back to grading stories now.
it's good of you to want to help, but whatever you decide to do in re the presentation, i'm sorry to say i'm concerned that you will be, in effect, teaching writing, although your grammar seems to be quite poor, judging from this post... no offense intended... love and hugs, maia
Oh, I wasn't planning on anything extensive. A lot of your questions were questions I have already asked the teacher because those are answers needed before I have an idea of the scope of the project. The in-class portion was going to be more of a presentation outline and very general in scope. Basically find out from them what they think makes up a story, and then give them a basic outline. That was pretty much it.
I think that it is assumed by most people that writing styles on a forum generally reflects a tone of more how we speak in conversation rather than trying to ensure grammar correctness, especially since I'm not posting anything for review and asking for a criticism. If you feel the need to insult me rather than focus on the actual topic and purpose of my thread, then I suppose that's your prerogative, but as a new member to this site, it gives me a negative first impression when what appears to be one of the longest and prolific posters engages in that behavior. Especially when the person giving the criticism about poor grammar can't seem to find the shift key on her keyboard herself. P.S., I apologize for any poor usage of grammar in that above post.
Maia, I have to agree with Sacrosanct. It's not a good idea to criticise someone's grammar when you don't use capital letters and use ellipsis after every sentence. Just saying. Sac, if it's about the writing "process" then maybe they should learn about the structure of a story too? I'd also be tempted to give them a genre to write in, such as horror or science fiction, to see what they can come up with.
Well, admittedly a lot of how I decide to approach this will come down to what the teacher wants to cover. I initially thought about doing a Halloween theme, but I think the goal is to get as many kids interested as possible, and since kids all have different likes, allowing them to do whatever genre they want may be the right way to go.
To be honest, I liked your idea about picking an animal and a setting. I guess it depends on the age group and, as you say, what the teacher intends to get out of the lesson. As a fun task, I think your initial ideas are pretty good ones.
A side thought: I remember a teacher in, I think, third grade, assigning us to write a story. I was entirely unable to do it because I didn't realize that a first draft of a story by a nine year old isn't expected to be as good as a published book. So while you want the kids to think about things like plot and character and theme, you may also want to make it clear that they're not somehow, magically, going to be able to write words that sound like a finished book. I'm also inclined against the groups doing plots and characters and so on, _unless_ that's just a warmup exercise and they can actually write whatever they want. It's hard enough for adult co-authors to remain civil and respect each other's contributions.
Have any of you taken a creative writing course or a course on how to write a novel? My husband says I read so much, therefore I must know how to write a good book, but I might say he could qualify to be a doctor because he loves medical dramas so much! Is there much to be gained from attending a course? There is so much to choose from (in the UK) I just don't know where to start or if I should even bother (cost wise).
I've taken courses from the Gotham Writers' Workshop online. I think they're good. The emphasis is on critiquing the work of your classmates, and I find that valuable. I've never taken a writing course in person, but I'd like to. I'd like to meet the instructor and my fellow students face to face.
I have taken creative writing courses in college and have attended writing conferences and workshops as well. They all have something to offer but, I don't believe your husband's comments are all that cheeky. The best, first lesson in writing is to read. But read good writing. And read in whatever genre you wish to be published. The next step is to find and join a good writers guild in your area. This is where you are going to gain the next most important lesson in writing. The critiquing part. This can be a bit painful if 1) you get into the wrong group and people are in it only to show how 'great' they are and let you know how rotten your writing is. (In which case, find another group fast!), or 2) if you have never been given a solid crit from others before and have a hard time taking the more negative parts of the critique. Having others point out what you may not see in your work is invaluable. But one of the greatest lessons you get from a writers' group is in the critiques you give to others. It's amazing how much you can learn about writing in general and your own writing in particular from critiquing others' works and seeing where their weak spots are and why. You should then find it easier to see those same weaknesses in your own work. If money is a deciding factor, I would opt for the butt in the chair and start writing, then join a guild route before laying out hard cash. There are also many good books on creative writing that can be a big help along the way. Good luck.
I have never taken a writing course, I would love to but right now I can't afford it, neither can I study at the times most part time courses are (usually at like 9-11am). I would love to find an evening course but I've still to find one and to wait until I get a job that pays me enough to being able to pay for it.
Thank you all for your help. I might just bite the bullet and take a course. (I was looking at the London School of Journalism which do a correspondence course in novel writing for just under £400) I wish I could attend a University, but I don't have any qualifications! I left school early for various reasons and would have to probably go back and take A levels before a uni would even look at me! (and frankly, that puts me off.) I do read a lot and consider myself to have been to the University of Life as such--I worked at a book store for many years before marrying and raising four children and in between all that I do volunteer work for a blind charity.
What your husband said is true. Reading helps you improve your writing; both technically and creatively. I have never taken a writing class in my life. All I do is read and Google.
I took a Writer's Craft course in high school and enjoyed it. I got an A! I'm looking to take one again at my University or just as a separate thing. I think it really helps bring along your writing.
Reading is +50% of a writer's world, but not all readers are or can be writers (though the ambition may strike anyone). I've taken both online and on-campus creative writing courses over the years. I will say that the on-campus ones have been more beneficial in comparison (mostly due to the critiquing factor others have mentioned). Many online courses also have others critiquing your work and you critiquing theirs, but it's not quite the same. A lot is lost in translation. There is much to be gained from these courses, if you put in the effort, but they, by no means, guarantee success. Likewise, there is little harm to come from them, unless you consider your finances and time (which some can surely waste).
I have attended one Creative Writing course. Despite the fact that it was at a community college, the majority of the students took it seriously. The first half of the course was about writing in general: fiction, pacing, poetry, characters, plots, virtually nothing to do with grammar. The second half was all workshops. Every class three or four students would have submitted work for copying and every classmate would be given a copy of those for the day. The first thirty minutes of the class would be for people to read over the works and fill out individualized worksheets containing such questions as initial thoughts, likes, dislikes, and additional notes. Then we would go around the room and the piece presenters would read the first page of their work or an entire poem. Afterwards, volunteers would raise their hands and speak about the various topics they had listed on their worksheets (we all had been coached as to how to make productive criticism). At the end, all the worksheets for a piece would be turned in to the writer to have and read over at home. It was great. I was late to my own reading, and a nervous wreck. I was afraid my voice would catch in my throat as I read, but the first time I heard people laughing out loud about something I had written was exhilarating. When people started asking for an encore, and the instructor let me read an addition page, I was proud. It was a grand experience. Go to a class in person. Read reviews about professors, or anything else you can get about the class. Make sure everything you read truly agrees with you, and then dive in.
It's totally different from being a doctor. You can easily be a good writer without ever taking any writing courses (beyond grade 1 of course!). With that said, I personally have found writing courses fun and valuable for improving my writing. But I wouldn't feel that I have to take one in order to be a writer. Take one if you think you'd enjoy it, or if you're struggling with your writing and would like some help. Also, I've found similar benefits to frequenting forums like these, so if you don't want to shell out your hard-earned cash, just hang around with us.
hey guys, just wondering, with all the books out there on the subject of writing and forums like this one..does it even make sense to got to college or something to learn more about writing?
I think it makes sense, but that's because I'm a hands on learner and I absorb material better if I have a teacher and classmates around.
