I assume you're reffering to my grammer etc here. I'll hold my hand up and say yeah it wasn't perfect, but then I'm not trying for it to be, not while posting a reply one something like this. When writing a story or whatever, my gears change and I put more effort into correct spelling and grammer. To be honest i'd say "fair point" if you said that after reading a story i'd uploaded, but saying that to a mere post on a forum? Sorry, but i don't see the relevance.
@Egor: Yes, although I wouldn't expect those non-writing classes to teach you too much. I thought going into some Psyc courses that they'd help me but what I learned was boring and utterly useless. With the right teacher, it can be rewarding, but it was ultimately a bore. Ultimately, I think a community college with a good creative writing program can help. Although I know a lot of colleges barely have a creative writing class, let alone a good program. I think the writing you'll do in college can help you. And some teachers might be able to provide you with a lot of knowledge. (Especially in writing classes) But I don't really think that college is essential at all. But since I was doing a Liberal Arts degree at my local community anyway, I applied for the Creative Writing ceritificate. Might as well, right? Not like I'd like anything else. And they prefer your general electives to be clustered. lol
It's not the degree, it's the things you do to get the degree. You learn technique and, most importantly, can ask questions and get opinions. I don't think it's possible to overvalue workshopping. Then again, I come from a college background. I earned a degree in journalism, and now I'm a journalist. I'd love to go back and get an MFA in creative writing, not because I think a degree will get me published, but because I love the learning environment and the ability to be surrounded by other writers with similar goals to talk and workshop with. Plus, the advanced degree opens up the door to teach at the college level...which may be the only thing the actual degree does for you, because you can't be a professor of any sort without an advanced degree in your field (or without professional success of the highest level, in which case you could probably catch on somewhere). It's already been pointed out that a degree doesn't get you published and college isn't for everyone and you can get published without any sort of writing degree...so I don't feel the need to rehash those points. I will also add the following.... I'm not fully versed in the process of getting in to a creative writing program (I'm talking grad school, not undergraduate studies), as I only briefly entertained the notion after finishing up my first four years, and now I have real life to contend with (and the math portion of the GRE scares the living hell out of me). With that said, I was always under the impression that most (or many) MFA programs do not cost anything to enroll (beyond an application fee). They are simply extremely competitive and tough to get into. Instead of payment, most require you to teach a basic college English/writing course, or something of that nature. That is your form of payment. In fact, I believe some may even provide a small stipend. Basically, they are hiring you to help the university (without having to pay someone a salary) while you further your studies. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
Wow! Thanks for all your guys' opinions! It seems almost everyone agrees that, while a degree in writing is not bad and can maybe make me look a little better in the eyes of someone reading a query, in the end it's the actual writing that will get me noticed.
You may have a good point: There is probably nothing a person can't learn in high school about writing and literature if they are willing to take those classes and apply themselves. I suppose one could actually get the education they need in high school. I didn't, but I could have.
Absolutely. Writing trumps all. If you have a story that starts out interesting, the characters are entertaining, the dialog is engaging, your words are pithy, the plot is well-structured and ends with a twist and it's about something cool, college doesn't matter. In fact, if your story has those properties, I'm not sure spelling matters. Good luck, JF. I hope you write that story.
You say that a person won't develop as a good writer without going to college, but your supporting details only support the idea that finishing college will require one to be, or become, a competent writer. They don't support the idea that going to college is the _only_ way to become a competent writer--and I'd say that it certainly is not. (I also don't know that writing academic papers will really exercise many of the skills required for other kinds of writing.) I can't say that any of my writing skills were developed in college--in fact, I don't know that anyone ever taught me much of anything about writing. I did read hundreds of books throughout my childhood; as a result my writing was always above grade level, and my busy teachers had higher priorities than trying to coach me even higher. But the writing education that I did get came in junior high and high school--by college, the professors assumed that I would write competently, and didn't consider it their responsibility to make sure of it. ChickenFreak While I don't agree that you must have a college degree to be a writer, I have to quibble here. Barring various issues with written language, such as dyslexia, I think that a writer should work to master grammar, spelling, punctuation, and so on to the point that they become second nature. That work doesn't have to happen in college, and in fact I don't think that college will require enough writing to make that happen. But I do think that the work should be done, and that once it's done every piece of writing, from one's novel to a scribbled note to FedEx, will be largely error free. And, yes, it is guaranteed that I will commit at least one error in this post. You can't write about correctness in writing without making an error--it's a cosmic rule. ChickenFreak
A fairly self explanatory thread. Do you believe you can truly be taught to 'write'? I don't mean grammar, punctuation etc. I mean the actual art itself. The ability to create a real story. Don't get me wrong, courses that improve on the basics of language and writing itself I believe to be extremely benefitial. I am doubtful however, that you can ever really be 'taught' to write. A fairly self explanatory thread, but a difficult one to explain it seems. What are your honest opinions?
I don't really think you can be. You have to have the story in you. Yeah, I know it sounds hokey and cliche, but I really see no proof that you can teach somebody who doesn't have it in them to get it in them. You can help them hone the craft all you want but they have to provide the spark or else it's just lifeless words.
I believe you can be taught the basic principles of creative writing just as you can be taught the basic principles of cooking. What you do with that knowledge is what becomes important and defining. To write well is something that takes passion, self-discipline, dedication and reflection. To me, creative writing requires creativity and that's something that drives my passion and dedication. There are lots of creative people who can't write well. So, to answer your question. I think writing can be taught but being creative cannot.
I think you can. Let me tell you why. Define creative? To me, that word, while the defintion remains the same, the perception of different people as to what is creative or not... is always different. If I were to be asked, "do you think this is creative enough?" without looking at the subject of creativity, i would answer yes. If they said, "You didn't even look at it," I would simply say, "You created it didn't you? Therefore it is creative. Now, as to whether someone can be taught to write something SO creative that others will want to read? I am not sure. I think it depends on the teacher. Because if you have the right teacher, and the student listens and applies everthing that is taught, then I think it could be learned. With that being said, some people will never get it. So, I guess it depends on the student too.
I think you can be taught the theories but you can't be given the knack of using them. So it's like the teaching of music or acting, you have to have a natural ability or there's no point knowing the theories. So I don't know if that's a yes or a no.
Well I've said before that I'll be starting college in 2 month. I go to registration soon. My major will be computer engineering, but I'm becoming more certain on becoming an English teacher in the future. Here is my question: Would it be more beneficial to minor in Englih, or in Creative writing [assuming its offered]? Is there any advantage to creative writing or will I be more well rounded with An english degree? Is there anything I'd learn in CW that I won't be taught with an English Minor?
I can't really help you there as every college is different. English classes will offer you basic grammar and composition skills that should be helpful in creative writing. The effectiveness of creative writing courses can vary very greatly. Some are great, some suck. I suppose, if you have free credits, it can't hurt to take a Creative Writing class, as long as you don't let yourself be coaxed into poor writing habits. Now me, I'm kind of a lib. arts student at my local community anyway, so I am taking all the creative writing courses that I can. So far, I've found them to be only moderately helpful, but there IS a course that is supposed to teach about the publishing industry that I am registered for. So I am pretty psyched to see how that goes. If you have a class like that at your college, I think THAT is something to consider if publishing is among your aspirations.
I don't think most universities offer a separate Creative Writing degree - it's just an English degree. In my experience, pretty much any English class, even if not about creative writing, will help you learn how to write. They're about evaluating written works, and you'll naturally learn from example.
If your college offers both an English minor AND a creative writing minor, see if you can do both. But as an entering freshman, you don't have to worry about it yet. Take the classes you can that interest you. Ask one of the creative writing instructors when you get there.
I'm not completely sure based on your post, but it kind of sounds like you are planning on staying with the Engineering major, but then minoring, if this is so, i would recommend dropping that major if you want to teach English. From my experience CS/Engineering majors have to take a lot of classes, its common for them to spend 5 or more years for them to finish a Bachelors because of this. i cant see how taking all of those classes will be worthwhile at all if you want to teach English. on the other hand, most majors like English require a lot less units. the way it works at my school is that you can major in English and get an emphasis in creative writing. You will also have the opportunity to major in another subject that doesn't require a lot of major units if you major in English. I'm almost done with school, and something that i recommend to people who are just starting out is to take a broad range of classes. something you don't want to do is take all engineering courses your first semester or quarter. you might realize that you hate it, and thats a waste of a semester or quarter.
might just be me and being a Economics and business student. I do not feel that you need to be an English student or have a creative writing degree to write. If I was you, I would stay in the computer engineering track. Then take some English classes. If you really love it enough you would want to change then do it then.
Thank you all, that is some useful insight and I trully appreciate it. I will keep it all in mind And For JStar, I was planning on computer engineering for over a year so I chose that as my major... then toward the end of my senior year I got thiscreeping feeling that I would like to teach english in the future... it is uncertain as of late, but I think I will stay the course and see where God takes me. if I have to go back so I can get the credentials to be a teacher, then computer Engineering will earn me enough to afford it XD still thanks for the consideration
From a job standpoint, it would be more beneficial to you to go with an English degree and minor in creative writing. As for the effectiveness of taking creative writing course in college, it all depends on how good your professor is. I took a number of creative writing courses, and I can say without a doubt that they will help you write more creative (duh!) pieces. Most students skate through school and just take English courses, where you'll just end up writing boring and trite assignments. This doesn't help you become a better writer. Sure, you'll learn proper grammar perhaps, but structuring a research paper is not rich and engrossing writing! Writing creatively is certainly a natural gift, but you must hone that craft to make it work. Writing essays will not help you hone that craft.
Sometimes I struggle with being creative, as does probably everyone else. What are some things that you do to help you stay creative? My first response is usually to do automatic writing in the style of the surrealists. I just sit down and write whatever comes to me. Sometimes I cover the screen so I don't try to edit myself. I found this to be effective in coming up with some interesting ideas, phrases and whatnot. It's not perfect though. Another method that I try is the cut-up. I buy cheap books and cut the page in four equal sections. I do this repeatedly and with different books. I then randomly put four parts back together again. Admittingly this sounds quite stupid. It helps to establish some ideas though. The chance element throws out the rational mind for a good amount of time. I don't copy the new configuration that the new page makes, but I do use it for character, scene and tone. When you are feeling stuck or feeling un-creative what do you do to spice it up?
Everyone's creativity often comes from the cognitive functions they use themselves. Some people see patterns and relations in the smallest of things because they use extroverted intuition. Others may find a lot of creativity in memories with strong use of introverted sensing. Anyway, long story short, there are many different ways to tap into your creativity and the methods to do so can differ from person to person. Some need to go out and experience the world, others need to find solitude and introspect. So ask yourself, where does most of your creativity come from? What moments did you find you were exceptionally creative and what were the circumstances of your life at that time. Try to recreate those circumstances (if they were positive ). My creativity comes from experiencing new things. Reading new books, watching new tv shows, experiencing new life experiences. For me, there are times I've been nostalgic and reread a book or just did things I already done before. that's when I personally lose my creativity. Nostalgia can be nice to wind me down, but it won't help my creativity one bit.
One of the way I help myself to stay in the zone as it were is to write down three or four words (tree, castle, mouse, boat) and write them on a Post-it and stick it to my monitor before setting about writing a short story (roughly 1000 words or less) using only those words three things to make up the story. Grab a dictionary or find a word generator online and give it a go ... may not work for you, but it helps me keep my muse from turning stale.
Sometimes I get out of my comfort zone - if I haven't been to the beach in ages - I go there sit down and start to write , observations, feelings - it helps when you cut loose and do something childish - like wade , bring a bucket and make a sandcastle , or hunt for sea glass or pretty rocks or even attempt a cartwheel. Try something new - a new food dish , a new outfit , a new hobby. Or something old - buy a box of crayons and color , let your inner child loose with a can of play-doh. Go somewhere unique - a museum , an art gallery , a butterfly conservatory , a carnival. Engage in conversations with new people - especially ask people their opinion on things - this really gets them talking! Jot everything down - you'll never know what will come in handy.
