Hi, So my question is about a sex worker character in a historically-based fantasy world, so loosely period. But I'm not necessarily asking about historical info. Insights on the specific historic situation would be useful, in the setting range of Early Modern Europe, but I would also be interested in general thoughts on what a good pay is. The idea is that this character is a somewhat more experienced worker, one of the older ones at the brothel at 33, and she's quite intelligent and mature. So she gets paid a little above average as a senior skilled worker. She also works at one of the classier places, not a cheap brothel. My idea was that her typical pay is something equivalent in modern terms to 13 USD an hour (or 17.90 AUD). Plus she receives room and board and some clothing supplies from the brothel. Is that too much or too little for the position she in? To be clear, she is not supposed to be well-off, just more than some. Thoughts?
In Nevada, legal houses of average quality charge $250-350 per half hour for basic sex. Rates go up from there. Houses take about half the profits. The rest goes to the girl who generally foots the bills for the accoutrements of sex. Some places are more expensive, some are less, but $13 USD an hour is ludicrous, even with room and board thrown in. How do I know? Spent ten minutes online checking out posted prices. You're welcome.
Well this is a portrayal of rather downtrodden historical prostitution, not any kind of well-treated example. But I'll definitely take that under advisement.
As little as possible. For the vast majority of prostitutes their clients are working class people who cant afford high prices. That $250-$350 for half hour becomes $25-$35 for someone down a back alley on a dodgy street. In the UK, you tend to get three types of prostitutes. Those on the streets, those in brothels or"massage parlours" and those who work individualy in a home or hotel, or visit at your home or hotel. Prices can vary considerably, but a rough average would be £30-£50 on the street for as short a time as it takes to get the job done. £60-£80 in a brothel, for as short a time... £60-£80/£100-£150 30/60 min for a visit (add an extra £20-£50 if through an agency). Of course, some charge a lot more and it can go in to the tens of thousands but thats not the situation you are talking about. Sounds like you are in the brothel range. As mentioned above though, a large part of that money will go to 'the house' most likely some criminal gang if there is no licensed prostitution, so the girl will not be earning all that themselves. Same with girls on the street, they tend to have gangs taking part of their money as well. The upper end has agencies, again, taking part of the money, but independents working through visits can keep all they earn.
Define early-modern...! If the setting's like 19th-Century England the OP could make her a "fourpenny knee trembler". They sometimes used to supplement the bad pay by getting the customer drunk and robbing them. (And the folk song I was looking for from 1882 has another going rate: fifteen cents.) I took her out to Tiffany's, I spared her no expense I bought her two gold earrings, they cost me fifteen cents. http://www.contemplator.com/sea/nygirls.html This must be comically low - the average daily wage for unskilled labour in 1882 was $1.42 https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015059385339&view=1up&seq=375 It wasn't a job people did if they could get an unskilled wage. So it must be that 15 cents seemed like a bargain but she only agreed so she could steal his clothes plus probably a number of weeks' pay he would have taken off the ship on shore leave - later on the song mentions 80 pounds. (And apparently "the unskilled hands of the Benjamin Tucker, docking in New Bedford in 1851, received $226 each for their two years of service"... so that seems to be a right ballpark.) There will be loads of sources out there on this - but my 2p worth is that gifts could be used to conceal the transaction, and theft could supplement the income.
"Senior skilled workers" don't get more money in the sex biz, they age out, succumb to addiction, or end up dead in a gutter somewhere. At 33, maybe she could get lucky and have clawed her way up to lower management as a madam, but there's no way she's getting paid a higher rate after twenty-five.
^^^ True. And you left out that a century or more ago, many sex workers succumbed to sexually transmitted diseases and then either died of the disease, or were out of work and starved. Suggestion: Read Fanny Hill.
Sorry. My misunderstanding. I was responding to the preceding statement which I failed to interpret as
More expensive brothel doesn't necessarily mean well-paid workers. Even if they are paid better. The idea here is very much a portrayal of a mostly-exploitative industry. Like a relatively wealthy farm labourer still isn't rich, you get me? This is not supposed to be a very nice setting.
Early Modern is the time period between the Medieval and the French Revolution. 16th to 18th centuries, it's a short period at only 300 years, but very eventful. It's the period of the Protestant Reformations, Shakespeare, the colonisation of the Americas, Isaac Newtown, the Enlightenment and expansion of the Atlantic Slave Trade.
Well certainly my idea is that people generally leave it at a certain age, one way or the other, that's why she's one of the older ones. My notion of her getting paid more based on that is in the sense that is she is experienced and reliable, so he can handle some of the more advanced escort type services they can offer, and in her position of a degree of seniority she also kind of manages the other workers a bit, so she has added value to proprietors for helping around. But yes, that's why my idea is she still isn't paid that much. It's relevant to her story that she does not want to stay here.
yes, she can earn more as an older worker. Reputation can get her wealthier clients. This happens all the time.
There are any number of resources on 16th, 17th, and 18th century prostitution; I read a couple of different books for a college course on women in history that included chapters on prostitution. You could make a trip to the library and have a discussion with a helpful research librarian if you aren't sure where to start looking. Someone else's carefully conducted research is a better bet than asking a random group of writers for information. In the second case, you might end up with too much input about modern houses in Nevada.
Well, as I said, given this is based in a fictional world not real history and will be received by a modern audience, I don't mind the modern perspective. Any references to pay or possessions needs to make a certain amount of sense to the reader.
(The historian acquiesces to the demands of modern fiction and retires more or less gracefully from active participation in the discussion.) I'm afraid I am one of those dreadful people who picks out anachronisms in supposedly historical films. No one wants to watch "historical drama" with me or cop shows with my daughter.
I get you. I'm definitely referencing real history as an influence on this story. Historic evidence is by no means irrelevant. But I want comparisons of time and place in this setting to be somewhat loose-weave, for example the fashion in the main area of the story is mostly 18th century but contains influences from the 19th, 17th and 16th centuries around it. And the setting is closest in parallel to England/Britain but is also specifically influenced by France, Italy and Spain with a more Romance culture. And as I said, I must consider the reaction of a modern audience.
It's difficult to relate the wages to current real world wages, since we are so much more productive today and fewer people work in agriculture. Few people today have to worry about where their next meal is coming from, or if they can survive Winter. When thinking about a realistic price, the first thing I think of is supply and demand. Obviously in a perfectly free society, there would be some 'demand' for sex workers, but potential consumers would need to have their own wages to pay, essentially trading their labor for the services of another, for it to be meaningful 'demand'. If most of the potential Johns aren't making meaningful wages, they won't be able to pay much per hour, no matter how strong their desires are. So my advice is to consider the economic output as well as the social norms of the setting, which will determine the number of women even willing to be prostitutes, and estimate a price that is consistent. Keep in mind that historically, women were limited in what kind of work they could do (if they could work at all) and even if they did, it wouldn't be the same wage as men, even if the productivity were the same. This would in theory effect the willingness of women to engage in sex work. This is a book available on the Gutenberg Project called "The History of Prostitution' that has a lot of information, with citations. https://www.gutenberg.org/files/41873/41873-h/41873-h.htm#f_40 It notes that in Ancient Athens: (pg 49) When discussing Ancient Rome, he does mention a hierarchy of sex workers similar to what you describe (but not due to age/experience, I think, probably class). There is a lot of information about more modern cities. They even did a sort of 'census' to try and get information on the number of women in the trade in London in the mid-19th Century, and tried to hear first hand accounts of prostitutes to understand the source of their situation (sex work was a huge shame then, few women would willingly choose it): (pg 345) Most of these women work in needle-work, and they estimated that because the wages were so low, about 25% of those employed in it resorted to sex works to make ends meet: (pg 345)
BTW, I have decided to raise it to three of the relevant coin, not two-and-a-half, so it is now equal to approximately 15.6 USD (21.68 AUD or 11.57 British pounds). Figure since it is supposed to be one of the more expensive brothels and the amount isn't supposed to be too low it could be a little higher. I think? It's a little difficult to calculate because not only the historical gap in value, dealing with pre-decimal currency that is worth more per-coin, but all the other ups-and-downs here. On one hand, it's one of the most high-paying forms of labour a woman can do in historical societies, and even in my society which is slightly less patriarchal they don't have that many opportunity. This is also a society where prostitution is not illegal. On the other, it comes with a certain amount of shame, regulations restricting them, the control of owners, and the risks of rape, assault, harassment or generally being targeted by violence. On the one hand it comes with room and board, other support from management, and gifts from clients. On the other hand the management is generally stingy about supporting them in any way that isn't useful to them, and they are encouraged to spend a certain amount of their own earnings on work-related expenses. On the one hand it doesn't have to be forever, on the other hand they can't rely on it since they won't be able to take clients past a certain age (probably somewhere in middle-age around 38-45 would be the end point).
I've decided based on my research it should probably be per client rather than per hour. I was imagining the rate my vary depending on the client and what they ask for, but it looks like historically sex workers were paid a fix amount per session, for example 18 pence or two shillings. It looks like my amounts were about right. None of the examples given in my primary source, Tony Henderson's "Disorderly Women in Eighteenth Century London" is above 15 US dollars in approximate modern value. According to this site: https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/currency-converter/ two shillings, the highest amount given, in the 1760's at the time was worth approximately 10.52 UK pounds, which is about 13-14 US dollars. Certainly nothing like a hundred or anything. So it looks like for Aena's character amounts of 10-20 in modern US value is about right.
Respectfully ... have you read the responses above? In general (with the exception of a comparative few high- dollar call girls and some who were fortunate enough to become kept women), prostitution is anything BUT high-paying.
That notion comes directly from one of the articles I was reading for research, so yes. Women in Early Modern Europe did not do a lot of wage labor, period. So the competition was not stiff. And a lot of lower class jobs were not well-paying, for men too. Historical Europe was injust. And there were more than a few higher-end earners in sex work. They had their own spectrum.
