Car survey: fix or buy?

Thought I'd get some savvy opinions here on a car issue. Well, if not savvy, at least opinions.

For various reasons we really need two reliable cars. Right now we have one, and a second car with "issues." In an ideal world I'd buy a new second car (I could afford it in the pre-pandemic world), but with the market the way it is, and the chip issue, new cars are scarce and way overpriced and decent used cars very hard to find.

Our "unreliable" second car is a 2003 Mazda Protege, with 90k miles. It runs but rattles and has some cosmetic rust. I had my trusted mechanic check it out. It needs a new exhaust system and catalytic converter, and some suspension and brake work to make it reliable again. That would cost about $2400. To really make it safe, it needs some overdue maintenance, specifically replacement of the timing belt and new spark plugs; because of the way they put the belts in these cars, that will run $1600. So 4 grand into a 19-year-old car with some rust, but relatively low miles.

I'm thinking when that's done I'll get a couple more years out of this car at least, and once the new car market cools back down (2 or 3 years out, I read) I'll buy a new car. My mechanic says, "it's better than buying a used car on the market because at least you know what you have." And she said if I didn't do it, she would consider buying my car, doing the work, and giving it to one of her kids. (I know she'd get the labor for free, but the point is still valid, I think)

Mostly I'm at peace with the idea of fixing up the second car for the $4k, but another part of me says, "the $4k is the same as the overpayment you would make on a new car, and you would have a new car." But I really like the idea of a couple more years without buying new, which would come out to about $2k a year for two years and less if I stretch it out, as opposed to spending somewhat more than that and having car payments afterward. Because who knows, maybe the "second" car will prove reliable for years out, the exhaust and timing belt will last for years.

Oh, and my ego is fine putzing around in a old car.

So what say ye?

 

Fix. Your cost per mile will be lower and the market will be sane by the time it needs to go out to pasture.

 

If everything is as you describe, I'd probably buy (used, from a private owner). I drive a 2003 Taurus, and I wouldn't put $4000 into it when Kelly says it's worth $680. I might question the estimates you have, both for cost and necessity.

 

Thanks for the considered response, Earp. Well, I do trust these mechanics; there have been times when they have advised me against getting some work done. That said, they are not the cheapest. And I approached them with the idea.

And in an ordinary market your approach would be the one I would take (or buy new) but these ain't ordinary times. I know I'd never get my investment back if I sold the car or traded it, but that's not my goal. I just want to get through the next two or three years.

 

Thanks Homer. Sage as always. Points well-taken.

One minor issue is we don't have official vehicle inspection here, and I did specifically ask about rust when I had them check out the car for me. Nothing foundational. Yet.

So. Yeah. Sigh. New car would come with warranty and even those cheap dealer tires would last two years.

The reason I'm getting the timing belt changed is that it's the one "100,000" mile issue/problem that can't be ruled out based on this mechanic's inspection. Everything else, she assures me, "seems fine." But no warranty on that, of course. I guess I didn't mention above that the $4k also includes front brake rotors and pads and a new front sway bar and water pump.

I just want two or three good years. then I reward myself with new. that's the tentative plan.

 

A few things I notice.

1). Rust casually gracing the surface means rust unceremoniously invited on the interior. The suspension replacement could easily reveal a lot more and make it impossible to work on without an additional charge for framework which may or may not be possible to truly repair. Corrosion is the slow death of all machines.

2). @Earp 's point on value is my top consideration economically speaking.

3). Poorly performing or hole-filled exhaust systems, as well as a non-functioning catalytic converter, suggest that problems are further up in the engine and the exhaust deterioration is a symptom, not a source. How often do you replace oil and did you do your 30's inspections? Any engine lights that simply disappeared?

4). Water pump replacement suggests that overheating in the transmission has been occurring for quite some time. You may have some warped metal and heat corrosion on the interior of the engine that becomes more brittle with time.

5). Timing belt replacement is an often added on huge charge that isn't always necessary. Be sure to ask why that needs to be replaced. The belt should not be dry (brittle), and if cracks are appearing then it will inevitably snap. Otherwise it's probably okay.

6). Brake discs and rotors are usual age associated replacements, but still its good to ask why and have them show you. Pitting and corrosion lead to squealing, and pad thickness is important to pay attention to, but you can make it last. If the pads still have over 5/32nds pad left, you should be fine without.

Overall, the car I believe will cost you that much to repair, then you'll soon run into as much of a cost or a crippling breakdown within maybe 10 to 20k miles, if not directly during part replacement. I vote no on that account alone.

Buying used right now is a disastrous decision. The used car market almost tripled because they know the chip shortage scared buyers. I would try to buy a new low cost car soon before your car in disrepair falls especially ill and becomes unsellable. Used cars are notoriously filled within hidden issues no seller cares to admit. They're always selling it for a reason.

 

Thanks EF for a thorough analysis. The idea of hidden rust and of exhaust-related engine problems especially strikes home. I remind myself that I am a sucker for such things. Years ago I got a new transmission for an old Chrysler New Yorker, only to have total engine failure a few months later, the old aluminum block debacle. Or further back, new tie rod ends on an old Fiat, only to have it expire totally a month later of unrelated causes.

The timing belt is solely a mfr. recommendation thing; Mazda suggests replacement at 60k, the car is at 90k, and the mechanic says that belt cannot be inspected from the outside, i.e. if you have to get to the point where you can inspect it you may as well replace it.

Much as I want to trust these mechanics, and I do, they will do whatever they are told to do. They (shop owner and his chief mechanic) both say that 90k is nothing on a used car, especially with all these replacement parts, but I know that 19 years is a lot, and especially on the earlier Japanese cars.

And yes, Earp's point is sound -- the car as is won't reach the $1,000 level, if that.

Oh ow, it hurts.

 

Yes, leasing is an option here, and maybe the way to go.

 

Dunno. Tried to sell it a year or so ago, for a thousand and got no takers. Thought a college kid would buy it, but the days of college students and beaters seems to be over. they want cars that look nice. And it has blemishes. and rattles some. and I'd feel bad unloading the catalytic converter issue on someone who didn't know better, and I'd feel obligated to disclose. I wouldn't buy it as is.

 

I know it sucks to put 4K into a $500 car but gotta think big picture. I’m assuming you don’t pay any collision or comprehensive insurance; buy a new car and you will. And you will get a massive depreciation hit over 2 years.

In a normal environment you would be best to get a 3 year old used car, but those are selling for outrageous prices right now. I would do the bare minimum, defer as much maintenance as possible, and once the market normalizes sell it for a couple hundred and upgrade.

 

You can get a good-looking 10 year old Toyota Camry for about $8000. That's the vehicle Click and Clack on NPR advised someone buy in a similar position. We have a 12 year old Camry, a 6 year old Camry, and the only reason our 21 year old Camry is not still on the road is someone smacked into it with a Ford F-350 pickup truck on a snowy day last fall. No injuries. Good car.

 

In a normal market, a no-brainer. This is not, right now, a normal market. that's my problem. Everything I hear, the good ones are either gone or way higher than normal, though it does seem to be cooling down a bit. I guess maybe I should listen to my wife and wait awhile, relying on Uber and Avis in the event of emergency. But that would curtail my weekend camping trips.

 

Didn't know the market wasn't normal. That's what Camrys online are going for. Son and daughter-in-law just bought one.

 

Guess I only know what I'm reading and what the local dealers are telling me. Maybe I should be more careful about where I get my info. I have never done online buying.

 

I think I started out thinking of my old car as being like a B-52 bomber; those things are more than 50 years old and still flying, parts get replaced and updated. But then they are much more solid machines and have had much better maintenance.

I'm still not sure what to do; my real issue is, my mom is 95 years old and 500 miles away -- I expect to get a call one night soon that she is "failing" and I'd like to be able to just get up and drive down there; guess there are rent-a-cars for that, thought that's a hassle. But I'd also like to go solo camping, but don't want to leave the wife grounded. Are those reasons enough to buy a second car, or risk fixing this one?

At least one inquiring mind wants to know.

 

By "better maintenance" I'm sure you mean around a hundred dudes patching together whatever they can scrounge up to keep the thing from falling out of the sky. I've seen the bottoms of dip (chewing tobacco) tins welded over holes and safety systems electrically bypassed to make for more "up" time. The maintenance is patchwork at best. I've seen museum jets robbed of frame parts in the night to replace aircraft components "temporarily." Hopes and prayers are really all those poor machines have anymore.

Point is, you can patchwork a dying system and make it look like it's doing well, but a dying system is still near dead on the inside no matter which way you look at it.

 

But they are still flying.

 

It's not exactly online buying, but rather online browsing. We live in a fairly isolated area so do things like vehicle shopping over a wide geographical range. For that, internet is helpful. I found my current Camry online, but it turned out to be located only a few miles from my house. The vehicle my son just bought was in a town about 200 miles from here. It's not unusual for people to go clear to Denver (5 hours away) or Colorado Springs (6 hours away) for vehicles.

 

Of course they are. Put enough money and time into anything, it will still run. It might shimmy and shake with a few death rattles, but it'll get there. That's why the decision is ultimately economic.

I had to make a value decision on my 2018 Hyundai this last week. Reached 90k miles, but needed tires, brake systems, filter and oil changes, timing belt, battery, and a general tune up. Nearly sold it, but ultimately decided to do the repairs and press on for another 50k. The engine is well cared for, the gearbox and computer still act appropriately, and I have no fuel burns or death rattles. And no rust anywhere. All the core systems I'm near certain are good. So it's worth dumping the 1.5k into (bought some nice long lasting tires). If it was failing any core system, I'd have sent it packing. Valuation decision.

 

My final answer: putting $4,500 into a 19-year old lower level Mazda with body rust and dents is, um, unwise. Better, if a car must be had, to pay some of that $4.5k into whatever surcharge the current market places on new cars.

 

I checked KBB.com and found two 2003 Mazda Protege, with about 90k miles with asking prices from dealers at around $4k and $5K. No mention of rust or other mechanical problems, so these could be better condition than the one being discussed. Same year and model with 200k+ miles look to be in the $1k-$2k range.

Maybe consider buying a vehicle similar to the current problem child, one without the major problems?

 

Now if someone were to offer to lend me $4k on very easy repayment terms . . . .