I saw a post on a FB group im in about how tired and problematic the misogynous male MC trope is, especially in romantasy. It had me reexamining my character because the editor had made a comment about this character hating women and i should make him more sympathetic to women early on. I want to know if this character meets the definition of a misogynist to others (to me, it doesnt... but i created him so im biased lol). Definition: a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women. My character was raised as a warrior in all male dorms. his only understanding of women is that they are used to procreate and its his duty to continue his family line with an acceptable woman. otherwise, they are a distraction. he's taught to be emotionless and ruthless on the battlefield and having any kind of sentimental ties is a bad thing. (literally beaten into to them). Though he's seen women before, he doesnt interact with them. He neither likes or dislikes them. They are just there. He's also never seen one as a warrior before, so he sees them as incapable of protecting themselves and therefore, need protecting. By the time we meet this character, he's had substantial interactions (as in, not just in passing and not just out of social etiquette) with 2 women: the woman he's betrothed to (a betrothal that was made at their birth for the purposes of binding powerful families together). he's been around her as a child and finds her to be too emotional and clingy. he doesnt like her, flat out. but lets her be intimate with him and then sends her away. A prostitute that his cousin hires to be his companion because he thinks the MMC wouldnt be so bitter and pessimistic if he had a woman to wake up next to in the morning. (my MMC understands that she is being paid to "play a role" and so he feels indifferent towards her and even kind of avoids her). When he meets my female MC, he basically tells her about "the difference between men and women" as he's learned it. he's not malicious and doesnt enforce these ideas... just surprised that she isnt the definition of a woman that he was raised with. he states it as a matter of fact. He was first intrigued by her when he watched her defend herself against a group of attackers, and then again by her candid way of speaking. through the FMC, he gets to know a different side of women (falls in love with her, becomes close friends with a *single mother and her young child, and even sees the *prostitute as an asset). He then starts teaching her how to fight better, and goes to her for support/advice. basically, sees her as his equal. What I was aiming for when I wrote him was someone who is emotionally stunted, ignorant of the world, and indifferent about social interactions. He's a warrior first who doesnt know how to deal with feelings (any feeling other than rage). But what happens when he breaks character and actually rescues someone instead of killing them... how would he react and grow as a character. How it came off (based on the feedback from the editor) is that he's a dick to those two women and needs to be kinder to them BEFORE he meets the FMC. *stars mean that these relationships are strictly platonic/non sexual
Is this the way you wrote him with his betrothed and the prostitute before he met the FMC? Did you paint him as just clueless, or was he actively hostile?
Emotionally stunted and indifferent, yes. His ignorance isnt apparent until he meets the FMC To his betrothed, I have when she waved at him to catch his attention, but he ignores her. Then some internal dialogue about him thinking of her as annoying ever since they were children and more internal dialogue with how thing are the way they are, including his duty to marry her and have kids with her and bridge their families together. The next scene, she comes in to his room to sleep with him, but he sees it as her trying to "fulfil her marital duties," but stops her short of sex and kicks her out of his room. With the prostitute, he talks about her as someone waiting for him back home and someone hired to divert his anger (he's frustrated with nobles and angry at having to deal with them) with pleasure. But he doesnt think it helps. He's not hostile toward her. (in later chapters, the prostitute is talking to another character about how weird the MMC is because sometimes he doesnt even touch her or talk to her, and other times, he lets do her job and then he leaves the room right after but comes back once she's gone). He's never hostile to them. the hostility is in his internal dialogue when thinking ABOUT them (i.e. he hates the fact that he has to marry her and that its all about duty and alliances, and is annoyed with how his cousin thinks hiring a prostitute for him will have any sort of impact on him)
he never tells these women "you are a woman so you must act like___" or "you are weak because you are a woman and you need to respect me" or anything of the sort.
I think you've described a perfectly fine character arc for the MMC. The way you've explained it, I don't think he is a misogynist. It's more like indoctrinated ignorance rather than prejudice and hate. Having him be more kind and understanding to female characters before meeting the FMC would lessen the impact she has on him. Less character development. I haven't read the whole thing of course, nor the rest of the editor's comments, but in this case I'm leaning towards this being one of their suggestions you could probably disregard.
A case might be made that these are hostile actions, but at the least they show he has a resentment towards her. That's not the same as clueless and indifferent. Maybe somehow you can make it clear that it's not her he resents, but the commitments made on him. Maybe he can even see her as a victim in all this as much as he is. He makes bad jokes about the awfulness of having to marry her without realizing it hurts her feelings. He doesn't take it out on her, but approaches her like she is "one of the guys" - never imagining that there could ever be anything romantic between them.
okey dokey, i edited the scene when they are alone together. his awkwardness shows when he wants to ask her if she shares similar pressures in this arrangement between them but then goes quiet because he thinks she's find his question inappropriate (part of this characters arc is learning to open up to people and say whats on his mind because he is very reserved. earlier in the chapter, i show his witty internal responses, but then his outward responses are short and to the point). Rather than "kick her out of his room" i changed it to this ending scene: When he finished, he waved Lyra from his chambers without a word to her and prepared for departure. Despite what she wanted, Thane knew deep down Lyra deserved better than the absent husband and father he’d become if she spent the night with him.
He doesn't sound like a mysogynist to me from what you've said. I don't see any problem with a character being a misogynist or a misandrist (lord knows we've seen a lot of those in recent years), as long as that's just the beginning of their arc. I mean for a main character of course—if they're the baddie or a background character they can be whatever.
I did read something interesting once - The only way a misogynist will change for the “right woman” is if that woman believes that it is every other woman’s fault that the man is misogynist.
I've never heard of that before, but i can see it as a trope. the whole "i'm not like the other girls" thing. My FMC is literally not from his world so she has no idea what the social norms are to begin with (that, and she lives in isolation so her first and only friend for a while is the MMC) Tangentially, the "he/she is not like the other guys/girls" reminds me of this comic (credit to the author... its been shared so many times, i cant find who it is)
surely the reason the misogynist trope is problematic is that it promotes both the idea that assholes will change for 'the one' and also the idea that being an asshole is excusable if you're 'damaged' which leads to women in the real worlds both thinking that they'll be the one to change him, and to them staying with abusive asshats because 'he's so damaged, i need to fix him' the reality is of course that people are assholes for a host of reasons and most of them can't change and don't want to, and that there are no circumstances where being an asshole to your partner is okay...your emotional trauma is your problem...using her as a punch bag (literally or metaphorically) because of it is a dick move. On point from what you've said he doesn't come across as a raging asshole out of the hits her, belittles her, gaslights her as ugly and useless mold so you probably don't need to worry too much
Not a misogynist by definition, just a witless jerk who inflicts emotional and psychological damage on women because, poor fellow, he's been raised by baboons.
