1. Rath Darkblade

    Rath Darkblade Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2024

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    Question about self-publishing.

    Discussion in 'Self-Publishing' started by Rath Darkblade, Aug 21, 2024.

    So, I've been thinking about publishing for a while, but running into pitfalls everywhere I turn. *shrug* With self-publishing, the main problem I found was simple: that people want something for nothing.

    For instance: years and years ago, on a previous writing forum I used to be at, one person who was published posted about how his book cover was copied and reused for something else (without his permission, obviously), and even some of the text of his book was copied and reused (again, without attribution).

    I also know there are a lot of rubbish books on Amazon and other places, and some people (maybe even many?) use ChatGPT or other tools to "write" their books and then publish them as is, chasing a quick buck. But I'm not interested in competing with charlatans like that. :mad:

    I take time and great care about the books I write, taking the time to get them critiqued, and often go through at least two drafts before I'm satisfied that they're ready. (With a few chapters, I even re-draft them five or six times -- often just to correct small but vital things, like logic errors or anachronisms).

    But when I go on Amazon to see what I'm competing with, and I see stories that call themselves "historical fiction" (so they should be at least plausible), but they involve a medieval knight smoking a cigar, or a Roman senator wearing a suit and eating pizza. That's not historical fiction. At best, that's a parody. At worst, it's rubbish.

    So, my question is this: I know (or can at least guess) that this stuff probably wasn't edited. (If this stuff went through a professional publishing house, it wouldn't even be accepted). But how would anyone read this and not immediately post a scathing DNF review? :confused: How is it that rubbish like this doesn't get pulled from Amazon and other places, etc.? More to the point, how do people get away with stealing other people's covers and content?

    I know the answers are probably simple: because you have to prove ownership, etc. But in that case, why would publish on Amazon at all, if the book you worked hard on (and the cover you paid money for, or worked hard on yourself) is going to get stolen?

    I don't know, maybe I'm a little paranoid. *shrug* But it'd be nice to understand this. Thanks!
     
  2. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    Many of the folks in my writer's group have self-published. The amount of work and effort they go to after the book is written is undogly. It's not one learning curve, but half a dozen, from formatting to marketing. I admire their dedication with all my heart, knowing damned well I'd never make it even half the distance they cover.

    Their reasons for self-publishing vary from the pleasure of controlling the process from beginning to end, to impatience with the process of trade publishing, to the inability to attract an agent or publisher. Some have had covers appropriated for use by others, but it turns out that the covers they bought were mash-ups concocted by a graphic designer using photographs and other art from commercial sites as opposed to creating a unique original design. To wit: it isn't theft so much as it is using the same commercial photos in different ways for different books.

    I'm liable to take some heat for this next statement, but there's a real thin line between self-publishing and what used to be called vanity publishing, especially in fiction. Some self-publishers are meticulous, talented, and highly successful (see a number of them on this forum). Others are self-indulgent, incompetent, and think simply seeing their name on an Amazon page constitutes success.
     
  3. Rath Darkblade

    Rath Darkblade Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2024

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    Thanks for answering, Catriona. :) Yes, I'm aware of some of the points you raise, e.g. I know that it's a huge effort and that if I want to self-publish, I need to learn a lot of things: formatting (e.g. in PDF format, for the book to be read in Scrivener etc.); promotion/marketing (anywhere from Twitter and Facebook to YouTube); accounting (to keep track of sales, if any), legal (to know your rights) etc.

    Hmm, I'm not talking about someone else -- let's call him Mr. Smith -- using the same photos in different ways (that's simply a kind of creative design, as long as Mr. Smith pays for the photos himself), but rather what happens when someone downloads the cover (e.g. from Amazon) that you either created or paid for, then erases your name and inserts their own. Isn't that theft?

    I can think of only one way to stop that: on Amazon etc., you add watermarks to the cover. When the book is sold and downloaded, the copy is without watermarks. Is that right?

    No heat from me. :) When I first thought of writing as a career (having just graduated from high school), I thought exactly in those terms -- i.e. that having your name on the cover meant the end of the process. *blush*

    It's now many years later, and I've read about other authors' experiences (and listened to other authors talk about it), and learned differently, of course! The book is written, critiqued, edited (multiple times) and published. Congratulations! Now what? Promote the hell out of the damn thing, obviously. How, I have no idea: I've never worked in marketing. But some ideas spring to mind: YouTube channel, Facebook page, Twitter page, blog, etc. etc.

    Of course, in the "old days", publishers did all that for you, and invited you to a launch party (and took a cut of the sale proceeds for their work). But they have teams to handle marketing, accounting, legal etc., and you don't. ;)

    (I say "old days" only because I'm not sure if it still works that way. I'm sure it does, but I don't know if the number of publishers and/or agents has actually increased or decreased. I can see lots of agents online, but naturally, not every agent covers every genre, which is why you need to be selective and find the right agent).

    All right, I haven't yet found the right agent for me. *shrug* But have I, at least, summarised the process correctly (and not just talking rubbish?) I sure hope so! :)
     
  4. Allison Burgers

    Allison Burgers Banned

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    I completely understand your concerns about the self-publishing landscape. It can be frustrating to see low-quality or plagiarized content competing with well-crafted work. To protect your book and ensure it gets the attention it deserves, it might be worth considering a professional publishing route. Working with a reputable publisher can provide you with the editorial support and protection your work needs.

    If you're looking for a trustworthy partner, [Spam and Cheese Publishers] offers comprehensive services that can help you navigate these pitfalls and ensure your book stands out in the right way. Keep up the great work—your dedication to quality will make a difference!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2024
  5. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Yeah, almost as bad as dealing with AI spambots.
     
  6. Catriona Grace

    Catriona Grace Mind the thorns Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    Who was Allison and why did they make burgers out of her?
     
  7. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Because she was full of meat?
     
  8. Damage718

    Damage718 Senior Member

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    I just self-pub'd my third book last week and like most things in life, it's a tradeoff. There are pros and cons to both indie/self and trad. It's not a money-making endeavor for me so when I finish a book, I'm ready to get it out and be done with it as opposed to having to sit on it for a year or more as many trad routes will force you to do. I work with a graphic designer for my covers as well as an editor & production person for full editing, formatting, uploading and all that. So not having to do that myself is great (of course I know this will change, someday.)

    Usually its a fairly smooth process, except not being able to work directly with the printer and experiencing all the little hiccups can be highly annoying. For example, on my latest book, Amazon kept printing the cover far too dark, so it took several proofs before getting it close to right. Then, AFTER hitting the Publish button, it started excising certain things, an open quotation here, a comma there. They are fine in the uploaded manuscript, and proof copies, but missing in the official printed version. Luckily, I only spotted those two instances, but there are probably more. Grrr.

    Does that affect the story or readability? No. Will most average readers even catch it? Probably not. Am I nitpicking? You bet. But such are the perils of self-pub'ing. It happens. But having the control over rights and the entire process is worth it for me. May not be for everyone.
     
  9. Rath Darkblade

    Rath Darkblade Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2024

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    What? Why? Sorry if that sounds persnickety, but -- damn. You worked hard on your book, and so did did your editor, production person, graphic designer etc.

    Does Amazon think it knows better, or something? Sorry, I'm not angry; I'm just curious why this is happening.

    Well ... I just finished reading a book and caught multiple spelling errors, weird punctuation etc., so I'd probably catch it. (Then again, I've been writing for decades, so I've trained myself to catch such things).

    Are you saying that if you self-publish, the platform you go through will change your manuscript? Why?
     
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  10. balgay

    balgay Member

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    I have had dark covers myself using KDP. I suspect due to the conversion from RGB to CMYK. I embed the CMYK profile in the PDF but I suspect printer strips it or ignores it. Having a PDF involved in the process complicates matters so it might also be due to that. Annoying but can be overcome as you say by proofing.

    Excisions you mention are just bizarre. If they are okay in the printed proof copy it seems weird they are missing in final print copies. I have not seen that before.
     
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  11. Damage718

    Damage718 Senior Member

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    The cover design I had was naturally dark anyway (intentionally), but ironically, it was the CMYK that kept printing dark, even after resubmitting unnaturally bright/contrasted versions, so we switched to RGB for fun and voila, THAT worked. It's still dark, but now you can at least make out the details. Also, the matte versions were probably washing some of the color out, too. Switched to gloss and that helped.
     
  12. Damage718

    Damage718 Senior Member

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    Tiny little hiccups like this are common with Amazon KDP. Does it happen with all self-pub'd books through them? No. But I have seen it happen many times, and not just with my own books. One of my editor's books, in fact, printed entire blank pages on some copies. It's a problem with automated printers. It's usually a safe & smooth process but goofups do happen. My second book was nonfic, and early proof copies didn't even print the footnotes I had on most pages at all, even though they were in the uploaded manuscript and previewer in KDP.

    As far as the little things like an open-quotation mark and a comma missing, it's so subtle that a lot of people won't catch it. I did, only because I work FT as a copywriter so I too, am trained to be OCD with such things. But even my manager didn't catch it at first, I had to point it out to him. So I'm not TOO worried about it, and can fix it with a reupload of the manuscript but there's no guarantee that every copy will print the same. They should...but they don't always.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2024
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