1. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    47

    How to go about making race/nationality without being offensive

    Discussion in 'Character Development' started by SilentWaves55, Feb 7, 2018.

    Since the MC in my story represents a futuristic samurai with martial art skills, would it be offensive to readers if he wasn't Japanese? I thought of making him mixed like half caucasian half Japanese like the father being caucasian and mother Japanese or vice versa. Or just have a caucasian European background. Would it offend any if he was caucasian? I've heard how many dislike seeing a certain culture being misrepresented by a different race like a samurai with a caucasian background instead of being Asian and I don't want my story headed in that path.

    I more than welcome any criticism or feedback. That's how I learn.
     
  2. soupcannon

    soupcannon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2018
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    197
    Location:
    1. noun; the act or process of locating.
    Tell us about the future. Has there been a significant blending of cultures in the setting?
     
    BayView likes this.
  3. GlitterRain7

    GlitterRain7 Galaxy Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    639
    Likes Received:
    904
    I don't think it would be offensive, but then again, I'm not Japanese. I think if you just gave a little bit of info on why he's a samurai maybe that would clear up any instances of it being offensive. (Like, does he just love samurais, did he choose that as a profession, etc)
     
  4. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    47
    Yeah basically, it's set in the future where melee weapons and samurai swords exist but sometimes it will offend others if the fighting art isn't represented by the characters heritage it originated from. Look what happened with "The Great Wall"
     
  5. ITBA01

    ITBA01 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Messages:
    208
    Likes Received:
    108
    Why would it be offensive? Countries like Japan have adopted plenty of aspects of western culture, and no one bats an eye about it. For some reason, it's only when whites adopt parts of other cultures that it's appropriation. I say do whatever you want, and the whiners can take a hike.
     
    Moon and Cave Troll like this.
  6. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    47
    Well there's characters like that and characters who aren't really like my MC he would sort of be brought into the training. Some may take it like I've done that on purpose.
     
  7. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    17,922
    Likes Received:
    27,173
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    How would it be offensive? Do you intend to integrate stereotypes into one side or another
    of the character's personality?

    Just write them to fit the personal and cultural pursuits that fit them best, and you should be
    fine. Since you have more than one, you can blend them together and have an interesting
    character. Just avoid stereotyping them and you should be fine.

    (Anyone can learn martial arts, even if they are not apart of the culture from which they originated.)
     
    Fernando.C likes this.
  8. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    47
    I plan on avoiding stereotypes. I just want to make sense of it. Like the MC could be fighting in a world where martial arts and sword fighting has become the norm. I just want the MC's style to stand out the most so he will be the one the bad guys will be going after as the main target.
     
  9. DeeDee

    DeeDee Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    562
    Likes Received:
    418
    There's no reason to get offended by a white samurai. But why would your obviously non-Asian character identify as an Asian warrior? Why not Viking? Or travelling Knight? Or whatever that's part of his own culture? There are no samurais walking down the streets of France, or Cuba or Djibouti and if you put one there, I'd expect some solid explanation. Also, I'll be wondering why there's a dude in medieval gear walking down a street in a distant future. Unless you're writing a comic book.
     
  10. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    47
    It takes place in the near future where firearms have been banned by certain corrupted leader in favor of the old days of using samurai swords but doesn't mean I can't mix other melee swords in there like knights, vikings .. but there will still be firearms mixed in, maybe only available for the evil leaders top high rank subordinates and henchmen.
     
  11. Lemie

    Lemie Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,836
    Likes Received:
    2,778
    Location:
    UK
    Read Samurai Vikings... now we need some Samurai Vikings in this world!
     
  12. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    17,922
    Likes Received:
    27,173
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    An exaggerated or boisterous reputation will do the trick, considering he would most likely
    down play his own abilities in the martial skill sets. Maybe?
     
  13. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    47
    Sounds cool. Depending on how I write my story.

    I see what you're saying. So now I have to decide if I want to make MC's father Japanese and mother white, or father white and mother Japanese or just keep MC white with some other mixed background. The father is going to be one of his nemesis villains.
     
  14. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,141
    Likes Received:
    19,770
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    I wouldn't worry about. Somebody will be offended no matter what you write. Your MC could be a deli clerk at a grocery store and somebody out there will shriek with umbrage if you don't portray the life of a deli clerk to their (usually myopic) expectations. Most people won't care, and honestly anything of artistic value should be offensive to someone if its done correctly. Things that are acceptable to everybody will be adored by nobody (kind of like Ron Howard movies). Can't remember who said that, but it's a good disclaimer to keep in mind.
     
    Fernando.C, matwoolf and ITBA01 like this.
  15. Dragon Turtle

    Dragon Turtle Deadlier Jerry

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    878
    Let's get clear on terms first, since I'm picky. Samurai were the military nobility class of feudal Japan. If you have "futuristic samurai," it sort of implies Japan has gone back to feudalism, which would be kind of weird in itself, and it'd be doubly weird to me for someone who's not Japanese to be a samurai. But, I'm guessing you didn't have these specific political and historical connotations in mind. Maybe you were picturing a warrior with a culturally Japanese flair to him.

    In this case, I'm wondering why you wouldn't make him Japanese, or half-Japanese. Or like DeeDee said, if he's white, why not make him a knight or a Viking warrior or something? I'd still want some explanation for these anachronistic types to be showing up in sci-fi, but it would feel somewhat more fitting, anyway.

    Yes, some readers will be offended if you wrote a white samurai. That's because there is a long and unfortunate history of Western authors (and filmmakers) creating stories about white protagonists who get to take all the "cool" parts of an Asian culture, while the actual members of that culture are brushed aside and treated as one-dimensional side characters. It's the sort of thing where if it had happened once or twice, it wouldn't be a big deal, but instead it's part of a larger and very tired trend. So what is your reason for wanting to add to it? Is it just a cool idea you had, or is there some deeper meaning for you? Apologies if that sounds harsh; it's a honest question.
     
    BayView, making tracks and izzybot like this.
  16. TheRealStegblob

    TheRealStegblob Kill All Mages Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2016
    Messages:
    588
    Likes Received:
    291
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Well, given that there were a handful of notable western (white) samurai back in the day and that 'samurai' was also a title that could simply bestowed upon someone by a shogunate (rather than some kind of traditional nobility-by-birth structure like in most European setups), there's nothing really that outstanding about a white guy samurai. As for why he'd be a samurai in the future, we could assume there's now either some new definition of 'samurai', or the place he's living in has gone back to some kind of feudal government or maybe, perhaps, he's just an insane samurai fanboy. Putting on some tacky 'samurai armor' and running around with a katana makes you about as much a samurai as running around in a suit of armor with a broadsword makes you a knight, really.

    In the case of that movie, it wasn't that Matt Damon was a white guy who knew martial arts, people got upset that it was a 'white guy is the hero' story. Practically no one is going to care if you have a white guy be a samurai, but it may draw criticism if he's inexplicably living in China or Japan and for whatever reason, he's the most capable hero who saves the day.
     
  17. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    47
    That's something I will
     
  18. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    47
    Well I would have reasons for the MC and the future society having samurai swords. The world would be ruled by one governed leader who has an obsession over the samurai lifestyle and melee combat or the world goes through a destruction of war, destroying lots of technology, causing everyone to resort back to the old ways with swords in the near future or feudal samurai time travels to the future and he'd be the one with the swords.
     
  19. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    47
    That is true and I agree with you on all that. However, my only concern is if a future storyline could work as a reason for a white samurai or whatever background MC is could exist from an obsessed samurai fanboy ruler making the world a futuristic samurai setting, would it not seem that this evil ruler is not much a true threat? I mean I'd like him to be of some sort of crazy commander and he could still have an obsession with the whole samurai thing but would that make him less a villain for wanting to eliminate all guns and firearms? Clearly that would make the world less destructive and he would have less resources like bombs, guns and such to fight and control any who oppose him. If he's a vicious man he'd probably want to have firearm weapons and nuclear wars existing in the world to cause more chaos and killings where the whole world resorting to the honor code of the samurai may seem less destructive think.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  20. making tracks

    making tracks Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    185
    I think you'd definitely have to think very hard about how it was possible for him to get everyone to give up all firearms, as it's not something people would do willingly. However I don't think you need firearms to be the villain at all. Not all villains have to be about chaos, remember they're never the villains in their own eye. Not usually anyway. Your villain will have his own visions, his own way he wants the world to be. Yours sounds like he wants power and control above all else to make the world into the long lost (and never truly existing) place he fantasises about. You don't need chaos and mass destruction to make him a totalitarian villain doing that. Granted during his initial set up when becoming the leader I'm sure there would have been a lot of death and fighting and chaos but that doesn't sound like it's your end point so I wouldn't worry about it. He can be just as evil by his totalitarian control of how people live. Plus if he banned firearms he could easily have kept a lot of the confiscated weapons for himself to use in case of uprisings or to ensure he is more powerful than anyone else.
     
  21. making tracks

    making tracks Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    185
    And to add to the offense debate, I think that when you run into problems is when you take parts of another culture without understanding it well enough and turn it into something it's not. I'm not talking about doing something fresh with an old idea, more just thinking 'that sounds cool' then misrepresenting it because of bad research. Also, like @Dragon Turtle said, you have to look at the whole context of why people might get frustrated or find it offensive. Ghost In The Shell is another film where things kicked off over this.
     
    izzybot and BayView like this.
  22. Iain Aschendale

    Iain Aschendale Lying, dog-faced pony Marine Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    18,851
    Likes Received:
    35,471
    Location:
    Face down in the dirt
    Currently Reading::
    Telemachus Sneezed
    Look back at William Gibson's Sprawl trilogy, written in the 1980s when it looked like Japan was going to conquer the world economically. There's a lot of Japanese influence in the world of the stories, with New Yen being the reserve currency, "cyber-samurai," things like that. If, in your world, Japan (or a Japanese person) became the dominant power, Japanese things would be the default in the same sense that businessmen from Tokyo to New York to Istanbul all wear suits based on a fashion pioneered by Beau Brummel, an Englishman. In that sense, your character wouldn't need Japanese ancestry to aspire to samurai-hood anymore than Ken Watanabe needs English ancestry to look like this:

    [​IMG]

    Another thing you could do to avoid the impression of whitewashing would be to have your MC's interest in things Asian seen as being a little bit pathetic and pretentious. If he's a master martial artist and genuinely deadly with a katana, but still has that aura of the gaijin trying to hard, at least in the eyes of others, it'll be harder to accuse him of being a "white messiah"
     
  23. Mink

    Mink Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    Messages:
    631
    Likes Received:
    838
    It was primarily Caucasians who were offended by "The Great Wall" even though Matt Damon's character never once incorporated exclusively Chinese fighting skills and remained the European who happened to find himself in the middle of a fight. The director (who's Chinese) wrote out a statement regarding his choice and I saw very few complaints from people who were Chinese or of Chinese descent.

    Rant aside, it depends on why the main character became a samurai and how he incorporates that lifestyle. There's a difference between choosing a title because it sounds good and incorporating an entire lifestyle that you respect, admire, are called to, and know the history of. One is simply appropriation and the other is truly understanding and loving. It also depends on how much cultural blending has occurred in this future. Cultures are already greatly mixing in the world as people learn about other places and cultures. It isn't unfeasible that, at some point, it'll be hard to decipher different cultures from one another.
     
  24. LastMindToSanity

    LastMindToSanity Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2018
    Messages:
    753
    Likes Received:
    382
    What I would suggest is to not think about it. In my mind, the worst thing a writer could do to shoot their story in the foot is worry about maybe offending someone that might get upset that your character isn't what they think they should be. You can never satisfy everyone, and their will be people who get offended by things in your story, but you shouldn't let that stop you. Yeah, it might upset some people, but the amount of people who appreciate the character that isn't a walking cliche, like the cliche that samurai MUST be Japanese, will vastly outnumber the people who would be upset at it.

    TLDR; You'll never satisfy everyone, but you'll only hurt your writing if you go out of your way to try.
     
  25. SilentWaves55

    SilentWaves55 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    47
    Ok so maybe he could then still have evil and chaotic intentions while turning the world away from firearms to suit his fanboy needs. Maybe that could be away for him to make everything seem like it's in order to keep his real intentions conceived. Maybe he keeps his firearm weapons contained to himself and his higher up authority ranks or maybe there's more leaders with him ruling the world that creates different set of laws but in all truth I like where this could go with him outlawing guns and swords being the norm. He could have the guns controlled on his own terms as other things. I want him to be the kind of villain who makes you think he's making the world great and free but is a true tyrant that loves destruction. I want him to be someone who is hated by many for abusing his power but at the same time has the other half or most of the world brainwashed to his doings and will worship him like a cult society if that makes sense. Like he's seen as a superior god by many with dumbed down minds.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice