Hello All, My first post and new to these surroundings so forgive my ignorance but I'm curious as to where I can find an exchange to beta read someone's chapters or novel. Is there a specific area to do so? Thanks
I use this facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/betareaderconnect/ But I actually made my best writing buddies messaging people at random on Twitter. People will hashtag betareader when they want one, so it's easy to match up. This discord is pretty active: https://discord.gg/JvuuTA for writers.
I've found all of my betas through social media and forums like this. I would imagine it would be challenging to find betas without online networking of some sort.
I have found that approaching beta readers cold can be frustrating. If you don't know anything about them, it can be hard to determine what value their advice may have. My most reliable beta reader is someone I got to know on this forum. She gives terrific feedback and advice. But I knew that already when I first asked her to beta read a project for me.
If you stick around the forum for awhile, I'm sure you'll be able to hook up with a beta reader. I do think it works best if you can get to know the person a little. So, just join in some conversations and see who you click with. Also, there is a section on this forum where you can post about you project and see if anyone is interested in doing a swap or beta reading your book.
I have to agree completely with this advice - it's definitely the approach I take. My betas are all people that I'm friendly with online, have some sort of bona fide (another writer whose work I personally admire, a reader who I know enjoys reading mostly well-written books, or a particular subject matter expert), and like or at least are open to reading my specific genre. They've also shown me that they know how to offer meaningful critique that's honest, constructive and polite. For my current WIP, I have 6 betas: Met here at the forum - 2 betas Met on Twitter through romance writer's weekly online Q&A- 1 beta Met on LiveJournal through outstanding original m/m romance she was posting there (she is now a traditionally published author) - 1 beta Met years ago back in my fanfic days - 2 betas, one of whom is a librarian They're a trustworthy and diverse group, representing different genders, races, sexualities and personal/professional backgrounds. I feel like I'm in really good hands with them.
Thank you for your replies. I do enjoy this site although I just read the threads and posts to gain awareness on etiquette and form. I'm not yet ready to contribute. The trouble I have with many of these social apps is that they require time and attention. Which I have seldom of, these days. If I do have the time to spare, I write or sometimes read. Ed, you are absolutely correct with your advice. A beta reader must be someone who you can trust and their opinions holds some value. A random person's critique can often be disregarded as offensive and elitism when you don't know them personally or at least intellectually.
I actually have had good results giving my stuff to betas I don't know. The thing is, whatever a beta tells you should make sense to you. Obviously you need to be honest with yourself. But their feedback should make you say ...ah, right. Okay. I get it. Good point. If their feedback doesn't elicit that reaction in you, their response to your story may be worth ignoring (after a thank-you, of course.) However, the tricky one is if they miss something important to your story. They either didn't read closely OR whatever it was either didn't hit them, or didn't stick. If the other things they say make sense, it's a good idea to go back to the part of the story they got wrong and see what you can do to make the connections stronger. Sometimes all it takes is another sentence, or a slightly more original perspective, or a stronger image. Or a bit more elaboration on the point at the time, so they don't miss it. You want the importance to register. If they skimmed a section, it's a good idea to ask yourself why. They may just have lost interest at that point. This could be their fault (they have a short attention span) OR your writing drags a bit in that spot. Again, the rest of their feedback should give you a clue. It's important to get as much feedback as you can from as many people as you can, in my opinion. The more people who interact with your story, the better picture you will get of its strengths and weaknesses. That way one person's feedback doesn't determine the success or failure of your story attempt. One thing I learned the hard way. DON'T give your corrected version back to the same betas who read it before, unless they ask for it. Give it to new ones. The more you do this, make corrections and do it again, the more positive your feedback should become. If you keep giving it back to the same people for approval, you'll not only wear them out, but they won't be 'fresh eyes.' Fresh eyes are good!
I sometimes read offerings in the Workshop that make me want to read more from that writer. I've often contacted them with a PM and offered to read their finished piece ...and made friends that way, as well as got to dig in to some really good stuff. If you put things in the Workshop for critique, once you have fulfilled the requirements for posting, you may have potential betas approach you.
Yeah, I like to get at least 4 people to read, so I can be the tie breaker if they tell me different things. That's why I try to polish so much before I give it to betas. They're precious, so you have to show them care and respect, and the only way of doing that is editing your work before you hand it to them.
Yes, that's important, for sure. They're supposed to be reading the story as if they'd bought it from a bookstore. They're not editors or proofreaders. They 'review' your book for your eyes only.
Thank you all. Very good advice from experienced writers— judging by your post amounts. I totally agree with polished work before review. The editing phase is and endless process and sometimes over done, well with me anyway. I know there are parts of my story that probably, most likely, should not have been written. That is why I'm looking for a beta reader so I can omit the drag, I.O parts that either slow or increase the tempo of chapters. I'm 700 pages in my story, and it has only begun and that's why I'm getting a little nervous about progressing any further. What if I'm doing it all wrong? What if it's too confusing from the get-go? Do you people have doubts about something you have been working on for quite a while? What do you do when you question your own work?
700 pages? That sounds like a lot. What is the word count? Because that's what agents will want to know if you are looking to be traditionally published. It's easy to get carried away. I remember my first attempt at a novel. It was back in the early '90s and I was using a word processing program called MultiMate Advantage. It only gave a word count if you pressed the F5 key, so I never bothered with it. After I had completed the first draft, someone in a chat room mentioned word count and I figured I'd best check it out. I almost fainted when I hit F5 and it came up with 440,000 words! (First novels are typically somewhere between 70,000 and 100,000). so, my advice would be to check that word count now and see if you need to do some cutting (and, at 700 pages, unless your software is set for index cards, you probably do). When you do, the usual suspects for cutting are things like unnecessary description, incidental dialogue ("Hi," he said. "How are you? How have you been?" "Oh, I've been all right, I guess," she replied, "although I've just gotten over a bad cold." etc etc), repetition (e.g. a character describing in detail in one scene what has already been narrated in a previous scene), redundant dialogue tags, and spoonfeeding the reader. Do I ever have doubts about something I've been working on for a while? Not usually about the viability of the project. If that does happen, I sit back and force myself to come to a decision on whether or not to continue. I've set a couple of projects aside because they just lost momentum. In my current WIP, which is intended to be Book #2 in a series for which I am about to start pitching Book #1, I am trying to complete the first draft by the time I start pitching Book #1. I've had to stop a couple of times and do a "how'm I doin'" to make sure I was still headed in the right direction and at those times, I've made some changes. Otherwise, I tend to push to the finish and edit when I get there.
Welcome to the group. It sounds to me like you need to have fait confidence in yourself and your writing. Remember there are long books, short books, book series. All shapes and sizes. Not everything in a draft is included in a final book. But that can be okay, as that helps you to develop the characters and plot but also your own style. We all write and edit in a different way. Finding what works best for you takes time. I edit the whole thing on a regular basis but if I decide to add something to a particular part I often find that I need to edit/reword several lines to make it fit right. When editing look for words like AND, OR, BECAUSE, SAID. Filler words or phrases. Have you described an object in six lines where six words was enough? A thesaurus is a really useful tool when editing and rewriting. Some writers plan their stories. Some plan in more detail than others and some don't plan. It's what works for you and your story. When you find a beta reader or get comments about a post on here remember the saying each to their own. Everyone has different tastes and ideas. Any feedback is purely suggestion and their opinion, just like in the rest of life you don't have to listen. There has been little in my WIP that as I first wrote it that I've been really pleased with. The one chapter I was really pleased with is now two chapters with oak completely new one in between. As the story progresses the chapters/characters/sub plot etc change and develop. If you get stuck stop thinking about why your stuck and write. Look at the things being posted on here and contribute where you can. Good luck.
My betas... My favorite beta— you know, I actually can’t remember how I met her. I think I just posted asking for a beta, and we swapped books. We were strangers, though. I think. Then somehow it turns out we both like fantasy, horror, comedy, romance, YA, and morally ambiguous con men, and now I send her long essays whenever I think she should change something. Anyway, yeah. It does require socializing with people. But there’s always writers willing to swap and help you if you help them. That’s the process that has always worked best for me. Good friends do not always make good betas, but good betas always make good friends.
Hi and thanks for the advice. It's funny but I never did a word count on my story. So far it's 342,192 words on 692 pages. It's not a single book but more of a epic series. I'm not going the traditional route of publishing my story. I will self publish this myself. I have no aspirations on becoming a great author or even a mediocre one. I just want to tell my story as best I can and see it in bound pages before I die. My good ole' bucket list beckons me to scratch one off the page. I've been thinking about this whole beta reading question and maybe I've been a bit premature in asking. My story isn't even near to be finished, it's not even in the middle. My outline stretches way beyond what I've managed to type into detail. So I will not be looking for a beta reader just yet. I'll wait a little bit more until I feel the story has at least reached a catastrophic climax that answers some of its deepest questions before handing it over to someone. Off Topic: I found this website and all of you very welcoming and extremely helpful. I will continue to visit here. I look forward to reading the advice and inspiration you give and also some of your short stories in the future. Cheers!
In that case, don't make the mistake I made. I wrote a very long novel that could (and probably should) be a trilogy. I wasn't aware it was too long. If it's a series, divide it now while it's not finished yet. There are good articles on this forum covering the marketable size for each genre. I recommend you take that advice. I relate with what you say here: I just want to tell my story as best I can and see it in bound pages before I die. I wasn't even looking to have it in book, I just wanted to tell that story sometime before I die. But if you're still in the process of writing, do yourself a favour and divide it. As for beta readers, prepare to give back what you receive. Many times I've seen people wanting to use others to beta read with no intention of returning the favour. That's rude in life (not to call it worse than rude) and that's rude in beta reading. I'm mentioning this because you say: The trouble I have with many of these social apps is that they require time and attention. I hope you're talking about the apps themselves (the technical part of them) and you don't mean that time and attention are things you're not planning on returning to the people who beta read for you. Not a good way to start. Beta reading for others, if you never tried it before, is one of the best ways to correct your own mistakes. It will also help you undertsand better what your beta readers are telling you. It's a win/win.
I second what @Rosacrvx just said, about thinking NOW where (and how) you plan to split this epic up. It's going to be very difficult to cram 342,192 words into one physical volume. And you're still not finished. Let it be said here, I'm a fan of long long stories. I like reading them, and always have done. I'm not one of those people who looks at a thick book and thinks 'urgh, no, not for me.' Instead, I'm the sort who thinks 'oh goodie, that'll be me entertained for quite a while.' I feel it doesn't take any longer to read a long book than two that are half the length. However, there comes a point where you need to physically divide a book, just so people can hold it in their hands while reading, and the back doesn't fall apart right away. So think now. Will you do a Tolkien, and simply split the book into two or three sections, with no break in the story? (Volume I, Volume II and Volume III.) Or will you write a few novels that can stand alone, but form a series? (Kim Stanley Robertson's Mars series—Red, Blue, Green?) Or will you go somewhere in the middle, splitting them up at a natural breaking point, then resuming in the next volume with only a minor recap? (Phillip Pullman's Golden Compass series?) Good idea to start thinking this way.
Thanks for the advice. I've already put in climaxes where my story will be divided, roughly 470 pages into it. The final chapter leading up to that mark is a major cliffhanger. It will all be a natural split with no significant recap of the previous timeline. I have so far 12 main characters and a slew of supportive ones. Recapping will confuse the progression. To Rosacrvx: Yes. I agree that the beta process requires me to read the other's work. I welcome that exchange and I think it would be fun.
