Hi All, Before you all fall over with laughter, I understand past/present tense in the sense of words. My issue is with scene setting or world building in a novel format. So, I am aware of the whole has/had and leaving/left etc. My issue is third person past tense terminology. Let me give some examples where I feel both a present and past word works, and wouldn't make me "double take" while reading a book. These examples are just random simple thoughts for technical purposes; Terry walked to Bob, and began shaking his hand with a firm grip. Terry walked to Bob, and shook his hand with a firm grip. Larry was laughing with mirth, enjoying the spectacle. Larry laughed with mirth, he enjoyed the spectacle. I suppose also it is a POV issue, If Larry isn't the POV, "laughing" makes just as much sense as "laughed". If Larry is the POV, it feels a bit odd, but not wrong (to me, it wouldn't bother me if I read that format in a book). Other than it using more words - is there ANY technical issue with either sentence, in regards to present/past tenses? I have personal preferences to which sentence feels nicer to read, but I have no strong feelings against the less preferred one either. My main confusion is plenty of stories write in third person past tense but manage to set a scene as if it FEELS present. I think the "ing" words are kind of get out of present tense free cards? Most of the examples I am using are ing words which can serve both purposes? There are a few other non ing words that can cause this confusion (for me). Example from Harry Potter (mainly because it is entry level sentence structure) "Mr. Dursley gave himself a little shake and put the cat out of his mind." shake is present tense as a word, but the style allows it to be past tense due to the modifier "gave himself". My issue is my brain understands the past tense modifier, but it also puts an image of a presently occurring scene in my head. I actually like that style, of a past tense format with a present tense feel. I may just be overthinking, or being pedantic, and I admit freely my English skills are not degree level, but I am becoming OCD over all the rules. Every 5-6 paragraphs or so I can highlight a questionable sentence I have written, the majority to indeed have "ing" words. Sorry for the long post. I just like to write my thought processes down.
I think you're overthinking. For Terry and Bob, both examples are past tense (although you may want to look at your comma usage). For Larry, both examples are past tense, although the second is a comma splice. The first is "past continuous" - the "was" establishes the past tense, and then the other two verbs show what was happening and that it was ongoing. The Mr. Dursley line is different - the verb in that phrase is "gave", which is clearly past tense; "shake" is functioning as a noun - it's what was given. It could be rewritten as "Mr. Dursley gave himself a cookie" and we wouldn't have this confusion!
Hi BayView, Many thanks for your response. You are not the first person to make that comma comment (my current editor screams this lol). I think I am having a weird brain-block with the "ing" words and naturally putting them in the "present" tense pile. I agree they are all past tense, but there's a little poke in the back of my head putting the ing words as present tense only, so thought it best to ask. Maybe I am overthinking, or maybe I need to go back to middle school, because I completely rejected the word shake as a noun, but now you mention it, is obvious. Feeling very face-palmy right now lol. I shall keep a close eye on this but will try to be more loose with my hangups on this. Luckily I am only having trouble every 5-6 paragraphs so it shouldn't be a make or break entire rewrite but it just concerns me.
I think some people learn grammar best by learning and following the formal rules, while others learn it best by reading a lot and internalizing the rules unconsciously. (I'm one of the latter - my formal grammar is appalling!) If you're one of the second type, I think overthinking can actually lead you into error and it's better to trust your grammar instincts. But if those aren't working for you, then, yeah, a grammar review might be helpful!
I am also most definitely the latter. It is since reading the formal rules in an attempt to get neater first drafts that I have been feeling like I am going in circles and/or limiting my sentences so they are painfully basic or devoid of creativity. I tend to go on autopilot and then re-read and amend. Then I leave it for a week or so (while writing other chapters) and go back to it and amend, then it goes to an editor. However I get a bloodbath of red back each time (it becomes less soul destroying each time as I get used to it) and want to gradually see less red with each new set of first draft chapters to see improvement and that I am learning from old mistakes. Through my research it seems even successful authors get a "sea of red" back from editors too, but given it is subjective, and being humble is a strong virtue for established authors, I am perceiving my red as essentially "You are atrocious, give up now". But hey ho, I shall keep churning the writing out and see how my first book does and make a decision from there.
These are all past tense. Terry walked to Bob is simple past tense. , and began shaking his hand with a firm grip. is past continuous tense. Terry walked to Bob, and shook his hand with a firm grip. is simple past. Larry was laughing with mirth, enjoying the spectacle. is past continuous Larry laughed with mirth, he enjoyed the spectacle. is simple past. (But it has grammar issues.) In general, "was blahing" is past continuous, "is blahing" is present continuous. But sometimes you can lose the was or the is, and then the same word can be either past continuous or present continuous, depending on the rest of the sentence. I don't quite see why you feel this way--neither would be ungrammatical. I suppose your feeling about it i related to whether you're being Larry or observing Larry? It's not. I see why you're saying it, because you're presumably thinking that "shook" is the past tense version. But "shake" can be used several ways. Jane begins to shake. (verb, present continuous.) Jane began to shake. (verb, past continuous.) Mr. Dursley gave himself a little shake (Here it's actually a noun, but the sentence is simple past.)
Hi CF, Agreed with all. My confusion was on the modification. My confusion was the word "shaking" can also be used for present tense, for example; I watch Terry as he approaches Bob, and see him shaking his hand firmly. (Edit: This is a poor sentence, but you hopefully get the jist of what I meant). The word shaking can be utilised in both present and past. But... https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/spelling/verb-tenses-adding-ed-and-ing "The present participle refers to things that are still happening. To make the present participle, the ending -ing is added to the infinitive ('I am asking her a question')" My brain kind of subconciously made any word ending in "ing" a present tense usage only. I see now with sentence structure and the use of modifiers it is allowed. I kind of knew it was allowed as a reader, having seen it used constantly. I think it was me overthinking and being incredibly pedantic with singular rules and not approaching the sentence as a whole. Apologies for typos - using a touch screen.
"Shake" is a noun here. There's no present tense issue. Your verbs are all simple past tense. <Subject> <verb> <indirect object> <direct object> and <verb> <direct object> <compound prepositional phrase>. Mr. Dursley gave himself a little shake and put the cat out of his mind. Sometimes the confusion is that present participles (verb+ing) are not verbs at all. They can be . . . Tomorrow, we will be running. (future continuous) But -ings can be almost anything--nouns, adjectives, adverbs, etc. Like in your sentence here: Larry was laughing with mirth, enjoying the spectacle. "Was laughing" is a past continuous verb. "Enjoying the spectacle" is a participle phrase acting as an adjective, which modifies Larry. When you establish a tense for a story, it's the baseline. You keep returning to it, but you don't force yourself to stay on it. I think what's happening is that some -ings are showing up (it's okay--inevitable--to wander), and you're assuming they're present tense changes, but they're not. Larry laughed with mirth, enjoying the spectacle. Here's a slight change that I think is what you're talking about. "Laughed" is simple past. "Enjoying . . ." feels like a present tense switch, but it's functionally an adjective phrase. Because it's describing an actor in the scene, it feels immediate. It feels present tense and in the moment. I'm not even sure if it's the -ing that's doing it . . . Larry wept with grief, shattered over the spilled Tequila. Here's a past tense participle phrase (shattered. . .) also acting as an adjective, and it feels immediate too. I think it's just the descriptive nature of it. "Wept" is an action (past tense), and "shattered . . ." is describing poor Larry, so it feels in the moment again, even without the -ing. I'm not going to say anything about those "began" lines, because it's a weird word. Too strange for a forum post . . .
