1. Bakkerbaard

    Bakkerbaard Contributor Contributor

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    Another proverb

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Bakkerbaard, Jul 22, 2024.

    I'm trying to translate a Dutch proverb to English, and while Google gives me a literal translation that seems to be accepted, it don't smell right to grandpa.

    In Dutch: iemand de hand boven het hoofd houden
    In English: hold a hand over someone's head

    Meaning: To protect someone. "Everybody with a grade under 6 isn't allowed to pass. Except for the one I'll allow to pass because I like him."

    Is there an English saying that does something like that?
     
  2. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Hold on, can you explain a little better? In what sense does it mean holding a hand over someone's head? Like to protect them from something falling on them? Your "Meaning" makes it sound more like those signs at the amusement parks that say "You must be taller than this to go on this ride," and there's a painting of a cartoon character holding his hand up at a certain height. That's to protect children. I just need to understand it better before I can offer any help.
     
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  3. ps102

    ps102 PureSnows102 Contributor Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    I had this exact confusion when I read the original post.
     
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  4. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I got nothing either. @Bakkerbaard what's your native language if it isn't English? I'm just curious because you appear to "speak" perfect English, moving effortlessly from formal to idiomatic. It would seem that Google should be calling you for translation if Dutch is your native language. I'm just curious.
     
  5. B.E. Nugent

    B.E. Nugent Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Maybe your character is wrapped in cotton wool or his poop don't stink while he gets away with murder. Maybe all these, simultaneously.
     
  6. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    This makes me think of the "laying on of hands" which of course is about healing rather than protecting. But it can also mean receiving the Holy Spirit, so that might be protection?

    Christian laying on of hands
     
  7. Hammer

    Hammer Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    It made me think more "having your back" or "looking out for you"; "don't worry about the exam score, I've got your back" would suggest that you were making a special effort to help and protect?
     
  8. Bakkerbaard

    Bakkerbaard Contributor Contributor

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    I suspect that is how the saying originated. And I assume it's because, I dunno, a parent would consistently protect one sibling but not the other.
    But that's all guessing. I'll try to figure out if I can explain this shit at the end, see if the Dutch explanation gets us anywhere.

    Yeah. The whole problem is when you get to this point on proverbs and sayings, and the colloq-I-still-can't-spell-it-without-looking-it-up, you're pretty much screwed anyway.
    Something is so common that there has to be a saying for it in several languages, but explaining what's so common is too hard.

    Thank you. Let me just take a moment to push my ego out of the room before I continue...
    Okay. I am all Dutch, yes. Which already means that I have an inherent urge to show off I speak more interesting languages. Foreign people trying to learn Dutch hate it. Soon as you try asking for something in Dutch with even the slightest accent, you'll get a reply in your own language.
    I got lucky for having relatives in Oxford, whom we visited every summer holiday, and I'm of the generation who still had to watch un-dubbed cartoons. I'm pretty sure that's a bigger reason than people suspect. If I wanted to know what Jayce & The Wheeled Warriors were saying, I had to git gud at English and subtitles, if there were any.
    So, my English is great, until you actually hear me speak it. Then you'll go "Oh yeah, he's very Dutch... Or having a stroke."
    Anyway, He-Man didn't use a lot of sayings.

    That's sort of it, but too... much? Can't really use murder in this case, as it's liable to be taken literally.

    That's not it, but it's fun that you mention it, considering in the story, God is the reason I need to know the saying.

    Close. But these might be too friendly.
    I'll just summarize the scene now, see if that gets us anywhere. Mind you, it's a little weird out of context.

    The new Devil (Lilith) is having a sitdown with Rosalie (Eddie's wife now) who came to the Underworld to get her daughter back. They're friends, originally, but the daughter's death created some tension.
    Rosalie is about to go back to the Land of the Living, but Lilith decides to not allow it, because it's happened twice before that Eddie came to the Underworld and stirred shit up. The first time Eddie was doing a favor for God - and getting Rosalie back.
    So, the rule is that once you go to the Underworld, probably because you're dead, you don't leave. If you do, you are Fateless, and that's bad for the universe for reasons I should really try to explain one of these days. Anyway, Eddie and Rosalie are now Fateless.
    Because of the favor (which involved killing the previous Devil) Helen decided that Eddie and Rosalie get to live out their lives.

    And that last line is where the saying comes in: The rules apply to everyone except Eddie and Rosalie because Helen says so.
    Rosalie glanced at the door. "Why are you calling security?"
    (Lilith:) "Because I'm done with Aunt Helen (holding a hand over your head). I'm fixing the Fateless-problem right now."

    So. Dead daughters, people going to Hell, incarceration and possibly torment... Yeah, it's actually a comedy.
     
  9. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Ok, thanks. I have a much better understanding now of what you're looking for.

    It could be as simple as something like "I'm tired of you having Helen's protection," or "of you being under Helen's protection." But there are probably much better mythological/superstitious terms for it. Allow me to cogitate on the problem for a bit (and do some googling).
     
  10. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    aegis /ē′jĭs/
    noun
    1. Protection.
      "a child whose welfare is now under the aegis of the courts."
    2. Sponsorship; patronage.
      "a concert held under the aegis of the parents' association."
    3. Guidance, direction, or control.
    "I'm tired of you being under Helen's aegis." It isn't a very common phrase though, unless somebody reads a lot of older fiction or knows mythology pretty well. Maybe just "Wait until you no longer have Helen's protection... I'd like to see you try it then."
     
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  11. B.E. Nugent

    B.E. Nugent Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Because I'm done with Aunt Helen wrapping you up in cotton wool.

    Admittedly not much of a favour considering they're in hell, but the expression maybe fits.

    Different, but maybe carrying the tone, is to go sarcastic:

    Because I'm done with Aunt Helen pulling out all the stops for her precious (little darling, optional).

    Or bending over backwards for the same precious.
     
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  12. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Or you could call it Helen's patronage. I'm not sure it really carries the idea of protection though:

    patronage /pā′trə-nĭj, păt′rə-/
    noun
    1. The support or encouragement of a patron, as for an institution or cause.
    2. Support or encouragement proffered in a condescending manner.
      "Our little establishment has finally been deemed worthy of the bank's patronage."
    The trade given to a commercial establishment by its customers.
    "Shopkeepers thanked Christmas shoppers for their patronage."​

    It's often used in terms like "having a god's patronage", or a "patron saint", meaning there's a saint that covers that.

    "A Patron Deity (also called a ‘tutelary deity”) is typically thought to be a God or Goddess who has taken a special interest in a particular person, place or profession. We see this in ancient Greece and Rome, with Romans being particularly keen on the idea (Augustus adopted Apollo as his Patron God). This is thought to be a relationship initiated by the God, who takes an interest in the person, place or profession and decides it is worthy of Their protection and guidance." Source

    It would be said like this: "I'm tired of you being under Helen's patronage," or "Well sure, as long as you're under Helen's patronage." Or "As long as Helen is your patron god (or whatever she is)."
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2024
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  13. Hammer

    Hammer Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I get it, I am working on a similar comedy...

    Does it need to be an expression? Would something as simple as "I'm done with Aunt Helen mollycoddling you" work?
     
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  14. Bakkerbaard

    Bakkerbaard Contributor Contributor

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    That has an interesting ring to it. I know the word, I just never linked it to this.
    I'm gonna make a note of it. It might be a bit too... "official," but that's a route I could go.

    Oddly, maybe, being the Devil and all, but sarcasm isn't really Lilith's go-to. Because of Eddie's favor to Helen, Lilith had to take up her father's job while she didn't really want to. Now she's doing her best to run a respectable Underworld and every time there are issues, it's the Sterling family again. At this point in the series I didn't expect to write, Lilith's more exasperated than sarcastic.

    I appreciate you going the extra mile for google-stuff I should be doing myself, but this one ain't it. Technically it works, but my mind immediately goes to a business agreement.

    I don't know about mollycoddling, but simple is the way to go, yes...

    This whole back and forth is helping, though. Thanks, y'all.
    An idea just popped up. Let's see if it works, while I have you here.
    "I'm done with Aunt Helen turning a blind eye to this Fateless crap. I'm keeping you here."

    Sentence needs some polish, clearly. I'll handle that soon as I get this linguistic blockage out of the faucet. But the main problem now is I don't know if "turning a blind eye" is what Helen is doing. She's not exactly pretending she doesn't know.
     
  15. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Derived from the name of Zeus's goatskin shield, I believe. Also refers to his breastplate.
     
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  16. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Community Volunteer Contest Winner 2023

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    In English, we've got the expression of taking someone under our wing. Think of a hen with a chick. So, "the professor took her under her wing and made sure she passed."

    But it's more about nurture and provision than about granting special favors or giving anybody a free ride.
     
  17. Bakkerbaard

    Bakkerbaard Contributor Contributor

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    Actually, I think "free ride" might just do the trick. Thanks. ;o)
     
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