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  1. alpacinoutd

    alpacinoutd Senior Member

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    Ways to avoid repeating said

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by alpacinoutd, Nov 17, 2020.

    Hello.

    I am writing a short in which a rather long conversation happens between two people. In between the conversation, some actions occur. How can I avoid repeating "he said"?

    Let me explain what I mean.

    Jack poured some coffee. "I can't do it," he said. He cleaned the glass. "I may resign tomorrow," he said, taking off his jacket. "I want to talk to my boss tomorrow, he continued. "Don't quit Jack," said John. "I don't have an option," responded Jack. "I can't work there anymore," he said.

    Obviously this is just an example and I can write better. The conversation is between two people.
     
  2. Laurin Kelly

    Laurin Kelly Contributor Contributor

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    Once you've established who's speaking in a two person conversation, you don't have to have use dialogue attribution after ever spoken line.

    Jack poured some coffee. "I can't do it," he said. He cleaned the glass, then took off his jacket. "I want to talk to my boss, I may resign tomorrow.

    "Don't quit Jack," said John.

    "I don't have an option. I can't work there anymore."
     
  3. IasminDragon

    IasminDragon Member

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    Nothing wrong with the word said. It becomes invisible.(that was from Dubliners)

    However, you need to use new lines for when characters change and you don't need additional tags when you've already established who is speaking.

    line breaks for when John speaks. Deleted the superfluous dialogue tags.
     
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  4. alpacinoutd

    alpacinoutd Senior Member

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    Thanks. I see your point.

    But to be more varied throughout my writing, I need to know some other verbs.

    So far, I have found verbs like these which could be used instead of say: scoff, cry, snort, muse, chide, fume...

    But I know they cannot be always used.

    What are some similar verb that you know?
     
  5. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Learn to do away with dialogue tags as much as you can first. It will improve your writing. After that, you can start adding varied tags.
     
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  6. alpacinoutd

    alpacinoutd Senior Member

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    I read a lot these days. What should I pay attention to in order to learn that?

    Are there other ways to learn that?
     
  7. Malum

    Malum Offline

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    Taking a sip of the coffee, John attempted to articulate how best to make written dialogue flow naturally. "Prior to including the words spoken, narrate some action that can be attibuted to the person speaking."
     
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  8. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Attach the dialogue to an action. This is called a beat.

    John poured the coffee and took a sip. "I can't do it anymore."
    <New paragraph because another character is speaking>
    Jack looked at him. "Do what?"
    <New paragraph>
    "Work here anymore."

    In this exchange, it is obvious who is speaking. The last line doesn't need anything because it's clear John is replying, unless there's anybody else in the room.
     
  9. alpacinoutd

    alpacinoutd Senior Member

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    Is there a book that explains this further?

    Also, sometimes there are not very many actions during a dialogue. For instance, a couple in bed is speaking.

    What can I do then?
     
  10. IasminDragon

    IasminDragon Member

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    IasminDragon joined the conversation. "Well you don't necessarily need beats or tags if there are only two people."

    "What do you mean?" alpacinoutd asked.

    "If it's short dialogue between two characters, the exchange can be logically followed from the fact a new speaker emerges on each line."

    "How do you know it's the same two people?"

    "Because if a new speaker emerges, you would introduce them."

    "I don't get it. Explain."

    "I'm expecting Naomasa298 to join any moment. That's when you would need more clarity."

    Naomasa298 did exactly that, and walked in to the conversation.

    "Hi folks," said Naomasa.

    "Hello," Iasmindragon said. "Now you have three speakers, which makes the use of dialogue tags and beats essential whenever a new speaker emerges.

    "Ah," alpacinoutd said. "Yes, otherwise the reader will quickly begin to wonder who is speaking."

    "Exactly," Iasmindragon replied. "Also, because the dialogue getting more complex, the word 'said' is becoming more invisible. I find it tends to stand out when you don't need it."

    "I disagree. That is all wrong," said Naomasa298.

    "Why do you disagree?" Iasmindragon said.

    "Because you are foolish and know nothing."

    "That doesn't seem terribly fair."

    "I am proving a point here that an exchange between only two characters has begun again, and now we can drop dialogue tags."

    "Ah, I hope it is working well."

    "Perhaps this answers my question," added alpacinoutd.
     
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  11. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    Add some action. And/or use dialogue tags approximately only once every three lines.

    "Shall we do the horizontal dance?" asked Jack.

    Jill looked at him, a pained expression on her face. "I have a headache."

    "Do you want some water?"

    "Yes, but the well is all the way up the hill."

    "That's ok, I have a pail, I'll fetch some for you," replied Jack. He got out of bed. "Why don't you come with me?"
     
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  12. alpacinoutd

    alpacinoutd Senior Member

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    Aplacinoutd gazed at IasminDragon's unblinking eyes, his thoughts in turmoil. "All you do is confuse me more. I'm awash in a sea of confusion," he said.
    "It's not my fault you are a dimwit," she responded with unabashed mischief in her eyes.

    >Just kidding. It was useful.

     
  13. alpacinoutd

    alpacinoutd Senior Member

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    Aha. I'm starting to get it.

    One could make the argument though that adding "action" might distract the reader from the conversation.

     
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  14. IasminDragon

    IasminDragon Member

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    Not bad, since I typically feel like I suck at dialogue. Should have added that disclaimer first haha.
     
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  15. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Yes, this. If you read this, @alpacinoutd, you'll see how well it works. Obviously you'll need to include a few more dialogue attributions if you have more than two people in the conversation, but again, you can use action beats like these. THEY are invisible—in that you don't think 'oh, look, there's an action beat.' Instead, you get a visual image of what's going on, as well as finding out who is saying what.

    "Said" is not invisible. If it's repeated too often, when it's not necessary, it's extremely annoying and calls undue attention to itself for all the wrong reasons. 'Said' is also colourless. It doesn't do ANYTHING but let the reader know who the speaker is. I'd recommend for a writer to make attributions do more, whenever possible.
     
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  16. IasminDragon

    IasminDragon Member

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    Couldn't disagree more. I love TH White's use of said in The Once and Future King. As far as I'm concerned, he shows the word said can be repeated as often as necessary and it never grates. It's all to do with the passage being written and the skill of the writer. :)

    I.e.

    "Isn't so much the distance," said Sir Ector, "but that giant What's-'is-name is in the way. Have to pass through his country, you understand."

    "What is his name?"

    "Can't recollect it at the moment, not for the life of me. Fellow that lives by the Burbly Water."

    "Galapas," said Sir Grummore.

    "That's the very chap."

    "The only other thing," said Sir Grummore, "is to have a tutor."

    "You mean a fellow who teaches you."

    "That's it," said Sir Grummore. "A tutor, you know, a fellow who teaches you."

    "Have some more port," said Sir Ector. "You need it after all this questin'."

    "Splendid day," said Sir Grummore. "Only they never seem to kill nowadays. Run twenty-five miles and then mark to ground or lose him altogether. The worst is when you start a fresh quest."

    "We kill all our giants cubbin'," said Sir Ector. "After that they give you a fine run, but get away."

    "Run out of scent," said Sir Grummore, "I dare say. It's always the same with these big giants in a big country. They run out of scent."

    "But even if you was to have a tutor," said Sir Ector, "I don't see how you would get him."

    "Advertise," said Sir Grummore.

    "I have advertised," said Sir Ector. "It was cried by the Humberland Newsman and Cardoile Advertiser."

    "The only other way," said Sir Grummore, "is to start a quest."

    "You mean a quest for a tutor," explained Sir Ector.

    "That's it."

    "Hic, Haec, Hoc," said Sir Ector. "Have some more of this drink, whatever it calls itself."

    "Hunc," said Sir Grummore.



    And there is much more like this. Perhaps you disagree, but I'd say he has made the word 'said' as innocuous as a determiner like a or the.
     
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  17. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I certainly agree that it works here. It fits the piece, and makes the two speakers seem a bit pompous 'in drink', which I suspect was his intention. (I loved that story, by the way.) And White was a skilled writer. However, the repetition of 'said' does call attention to itself ...as I suspect he intended it to. It adds humour to the piece.

    Ask yourself, though ...what would the effect be if this was NOT supposed to be amusing. I'm not so sure it would work then.

    I know I have read stories where the repetitive use of 'said' annoyed me no end. But obviously everybody doesn't agree. I'd say do whatever you want, in this respect ...but be aware that not everybody will be happy. :)
     
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  18. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    The thing is, action doesn't distract from the conversation if it's done well. Pretend you're watching actors in a film. They are not just standing there with expressionless faces, arms held rigidly to their sides, looking forward and delivering the lines in a robotic fashion. (Unless they are robots.) They are likely to be moving around a bit. Maybe gesturing with their hands. They may blink, or make a face. They may pause, while the other person gets impatient. They might chuckle. Or heave a sigh. Or point a finger. Or get up and pace the room. Or take a sip of coffee. Or tie a shoelace. All of these kinds of action beats don't distract ...they enhance the scene! There are also changes of inflection in their voices.

    Rather than just spitting out lines of dialogue, see what you can do to create the whole scene. Obviously if they are only exchanging a few words, that's probably not necessary. But you have the opportunity to make your scene come to life, using the action beats. These are basically short descriptions of what the characters are doing AS they speak, and how they react to what the other person is saying.


     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
  19. alpacinoutd

    alpacinoutd Senior Member

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    I like the analogy.
     
  20. Selbbin

    Selbbin The Moderating Cat Staff Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Hmmm... I find that very grating.
     
  21. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    “Said” doesn’t bother me. Changing the tag from time to time doesn’t necessarily bother me, but done too often it can become clear the author was just trying to avoid using “said” and that makes a work feel amateurish.
     
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  22. Vanna Heller

    Vanna Heller Banned

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    Jack poured some coffee. "I can't do it," he mumbled as he cleaned the glass. "I may resign tomorrow," he decided, taking off his jacket. "I want to talk to my boss tomorrow," he continued. "Don't quit Jack," said John. "I don't have an option," responded Jack. "I can't work there anymore," he stated.

    There are many many other words to use instead of "said". You should still use "said" but not as the only way for a person to say something.

    Here are some alternatives:
    https://www.proofreadingservices.com/pages/said
     
  23. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    See, this would cause me to put a book down.
     
  24. Naomasa298

    Naomasa298 HP: 10/190 Status: Confused Contributor

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    I went over the last story I wrote. I have 90 lines (depending on how I count them) of dialogue and I've used "said" 4 times.

    I use a mix of alternative dialogue tags, action beats and simply omitting the tags altogether. I don't do it deliberately though, it's just what seems natural.
     
  25. big soft moose

    big soft moose An Admoostrator Admin Staff Supporter Contributor Community Volunteer

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    thats dreadfully intrusive, better to use said than all sorts of synonyms which just feel amateur... but per the posts higher up most of these tags can be removed entirely without losing anything

    Jack poured some coffee. "I can't do it, I want to talk to my boss tomorrow, I might resign."
    "Don't quit Jack," said John.
    "I don't have an option," Jack shook his head. "I can't work there anymore."

    Generally the only said replacements I use routinely where apropriate, are asked and shouted
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
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