1. JBean

    JBean Active Member

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    How would you describe this exchange?

    Discussion in 'Descriptive Development' started by JBean, Feb 7, 2023.

    Hey all!

    So I have found it very difficult effectively describing a lot of the non-verbal communication I want to include in my story. I can imitate it, see it clearly.. but how to describe it and well a different matter. For instance I can Google "eyebrow wag" "eyebrow wiggle" and my results will include any number of variations among dozens and dozens of gifs. Most not at all what I imagine.

    For one scene I explain that the characters give each other a knowing look (exact wording I can't recall offhand) but for conversation purposes, the best example I have thought of that I can share as a visual here for others that depicts the same look (or very similar) they give each other is from the movie The Haunting. I asked permission earlier if it is OK to share supplemental things in posts to use as examples in conversations like this and was told it is OK here, so I hope so. I apologize you'll have to skip ahead to get to the part.

    Anyway, I couldn't find just a meme or gif so here is a link to that scene in the movie. The specific exchange I am talking about is between 1:36 and 1:38, the look Nell gives to Theo and Theo back at she:


    How would you describe this exchange between two characters? For purposes of the scene I am thinking of, the character is showing off his new blown-out decadent waterbed with mirrors and lights and satin sheets and the "knowing look" that passes between them acknowledges the type of activity one obviously plans to have in such a bed.

    Like in the clip, just a single quick eyebrow wag or whatever you'd call it, not repeated.

    I also did just find this gif too:
     

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    Last edited: Feb 7, 2023
  2. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    It's no good to try to imitate visual things in writing. And I say this as a very visual person whose writing has often been called extremely visual (sometimes overly so). There are things that work welll in writing and things that work well in movies/TV shows etc, and they're very different domains, each with their own rules and quirks.

    The best way to know how to write certain kinds of things is to read a lot, find some really good authors you life, and read more of their stuff. Imitate them for a while—it's how artista have always learned in every artform. Then after you pick up some new tricks that way, start to emulate, which means don't copy paragraphs, but write your own in the style of that author. At first it will seem sttange and awkward, but after a while you incoroporate some of their skills, not as directly as it might seem. A lot of what you pick up when learning is unconscious, and not exactly what you think you're learning.
     
  3. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Looking at that Morticia gif, I might say it like this:

    She raised her tea and one eyebrow in a subtle and extremely coquettish gesture.

    Coquettish might be the wrong word, I'm not even sure it means what I think it means. But by this point I would have made it well known how pale she is and how upright her posture is, to an unnerving and unnatural degree.
     
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  4. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    It's important to find expressive phrases. You don't want to try to visually describe gestures, that takes too long and comes across as artificial—dancing about architecture as the saying goes. You need to build or design about arcitecture—it's the only way to express anything about it. You dance about physical sensations. You film faces and bodies expressing things in the way only they can do, and you write with words in whatever way best captures what you're trying to say. And the best way to learn what kinds of phrases to use is by a lot of reading. Oh, you also want to observe the human animal in its natural habitat, that goes without saying. But you must also closely observe the writer's art in its own habitat, which is the printed page or the monitor.
     
  5. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    If you want to express those kinds of mannerisms you might want to read Oscar Wilde. He was a master of the drawing room quip and the cutting gesture. I'm sure there are others as well, he's the first one that comes to mind.
     
  6. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Oh sorry, I looked at the book and I had forgotten Wilde is a playwright. He didn't really write books. My bad!! But even just his dialogue (just about all a play is) is pretty excellent and gets so much across, without any need for visual description. It's a testament to how sparse you can be in areas like that and still have a powerful effect.
     
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  7. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    I might use words like... in the gleeful rush of anticipation, they exchanged a pop of the brows....

    Something to indicate to the reader what the character is thinking or feeling goes a long way to having the reader imagine the character's facial expression in the scene.

    Humans are very adept at putting a face to human feeling. Describe the feeling/thought.

    His face was long with the weight of his regrets...

    I looked into her green eyes, two pools of understanding...
     
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  8. JBean

    JBean Active Member

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    I liked how you worded that, I would never have thought of it lol Can I ask then if I describe that moment in my scene a bit more, what is happening between the characters, how you might have altered how you expressed that please? I am trying to get a better feel on the process of all this.

    So these two characters are "friends" there isn't anything happening between them- yet- but the sexual tension is building. At this stage in their friendship are no longer just casual friends or good friends, they're like at the BFF stage. The friend he is showing off his new behemoth of a bed to is very aware of his amorous lifestyle. He looks around and when he glances up and sees the mirrored ceiling it's this instant look with raised eyebrows an shaking his head to him like, "Agh- really man???...you a freak." to which his friend knowing what he's thinking and with pride about it responds to his look with the wagging eyebrow thing and vice versa. UGH!! I wish I could describe it better.

    Chris, the one whose bed it is (C2 to save time) is not shy, he is very audacious and forward about his exploits; his friend (Ben, C1) is attracted to him so even though they are around each other often and he should be used to his personality by now, its one of those scenes in my story where developing the dynamic between these two, the way they interact and inherently understand one another is SO crucial. I lack the skill to get it across well. and don't know how to improve other than reading.

    Here is the scenario to put it into better context:
    Just them alone together in the room, Chris draping himself coquettishly (needed to borrow that word here, because it's so appropriate) around the one of the posts at the foot of the bed all proud of his new toy and the implied uses- it's like he is eliciting Ben and this in turn makes Ben suddenly nervous and shy which is flattering to Chris to have that effect on him. It's like an older woman feeling self satisfied that she's "still got it" after getting hit on. It is a come-on and while maybe not consciously, they're both thinking or wanting the same thing, how do you explain something where so much of it IS nonverbal?
     
  9. JBean

    JBean Active Member

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    I just posted a reply above to anoter comment that ties into my response to this one, here. What does that look like? How do you do it? I know you suggest reading, but there has to be other resources to help develop this type of skill, since so much of the dynamic between my two characters is the unspoken. That being said a lot of their interactions or communication is non verbal. I tend to use it a lot, too I guess, overall. That is where my strong point is is in reading and recognizing non verbal communication. Reading facial expressions and knowing how people behave when they feel a certain way. I am also working on another crucial scene and trying to describe what is happening there has also been a challenge. How do you describe the look or behavior of two people who were having fun being silly until they see something that was at first thought no big deal maybe something serious and concerning like transitioning from laughing and goofing off to standing there watching intently. I can observe and know what is happening- possessing the right words to say it???
     
  10. JBean

    JBean Active Member

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    OW another great writer to reference on how well the English use the heck out of their language, expertly.
     
  11. JBean

    JBean Active Member

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    Yeah--- what you did there!! I couldn't do that. It's so simple but good.

    Coquettish is one of my go to words when describing Chris (C2) lol he exemplifies the word. My vocab def needs broadening but some words say it best.
     
  12. B.E. Nugent

    B.E. Nugent Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Wilde was Irish. While he did write plays, eg The Importance of Being Earnest (which was on my school curriculum and I grew to detest), he also wrote prose and poetry (Portrait of Dorian Grey, Ballad of Reading Gaol). It's a long time ago but De Profundis, written to his accuser who landed him in prison, was far superior to much of his witty but shallow stuff.
     
  13. JBean

    JBean Active Member

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    Oh yeah... I forgot he was Irish but still. He used English exceedingly well. De Profundis is a wonderful work... I have not read it beginning to end but I own a copy. He was very flowery- in a good way.
     
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  14. B.E. Nugent

    B.E. Nugent Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    And I thought you were just going to correct me that it's Picture not Portrait of Dorian Gray.
     
  15. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Thank you! I THOUGHT he wrote fiction (knew it until I found none in the book). I didn't run across any in the Complete Works Of, only plays. Not sure if I just happened to skip past all of it or maybe it's only his complete plays?
     
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  16. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    I would suggest books by Joe Navaro. He is an expert in nonverbal communication.
     
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  17. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    What I'm suggesting is look at how other writers have done it. There were several writers I really liked and read extensively when I was young, and at one point I started emulating each of them. There were three—Andre Norton, Keith Laumer, and Fritz Lieber. Each had a very particular kind of voice as a writer, and by emulating them I was able to as they say "Stand on the shoulders of giants." At the time I didn't realize it was forming me as a writer, but it very much did. I learned things I didn't realize I was learning. At some point I found their voices merging in my writing, but it no longer sounded like them, it was becoming my own voice. What began as little more than fun imitation ended up forming my own voice, and that kept growing and evolving as I went forward. I mean, not that I'm a great wirter or anything, far from it, but I do feel I've developed a decent voice of my own that began by imitating the three of them.

    I should say I didn't really imitate. I never copied anything they wrote. I wrote my own stuff in emulation of their styles, and it was just for fun. I was a teenager, and all my writing was for fun. I did a lot of it too, as well as a lot of reading. But writing is like a language—you learn to understand it first, then you become able to speak it. And the way to understand it is through reading. People who write without having read much don't write like writers, they usually write like complete novices who have no understanding of the subtleties of the written word as it's been used by good authors.

    Each time I've had a problem as a writer a big part of the solution came from reading while paying attention to how writers have solved that specific problem in their own work. Until you look at how decent writers have handled things, you're trying to re-invent the wheel without bothering to check what shape has worked best in the past. In fact, if you check up on how other people have made wheels before you, you can very quickly discover the use of oiled bearings and rubber tires and brake shoes and the like, whereas if you insist on re-inventing it yourself, you might still be chiseling on your first lumpy oval-shaped attempt on your deathbed.

    What this would look like (checking on how other writers have handled things) is to read a book and pay attention specifically to how facial expressions are used, but also other ways the same thing can be done.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2023
  18. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    One way to get across nonverbal communication is through subtext. What you don't want to do is describe slight movements or shifts of stance etc—we don't really pay attention to those things in the moment, we're just vaguely aware that someone is saying something they don't really believe, or that they're trying to manipulate you. A detailed write-up of body language would feel wrong, it's too 'on the nose'. Well, sometimes it works to say 'He sat rigid, arms and legs crossed tightly and face cold and hard.' Actually that's a little too much. Just saying he sat rigidly is probably enough. But I'm writing way too extensively about this.
     
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  19. JBean

    JBean Active Member

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    Thank you for the clarification on your idea. Yeah, I have a few books I had started recently but had to put aside as I am in my last semester of school and while i am already spending too much time here, I really don't need to be spending time reading right now. Maybe if I have a break. But... in terms of point of view, I am writing my story in I think third person omniscient so in my case, while Ben wouldn't necessarily be paying attention to his shifting uneasily in the car seat- Chris might, if he just asked Ben a forward question and instead of getting a response he's noticing him becoming seemingly uneasy. I will need to check out a couple of the titles you all suggest, any one or two specifically you suggest with a lot of non verbal communication?
     
  20. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Sorry, I can't write the scene for you. All I can do is say that it looks like you have it well visualized, now down to the work of putting it into words. Here's where a large vocabulary and how to format beats (and the importance of reading) comes in.

    Take it one beat at a time. Visualize and then put into words. Once you have the scene written, please post it in the Workshop, and I will be glad to review it.
     
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  21. JBean

    JBean Active Member

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    Oh totally, I was not expecting you to write the scene lol I was just explaining the scenario because I was curious to see if or how it would change the example you gave. I know context is huge.
     
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