Quality in self publishing (split from not happy)

I'm just giving the wrong impression now and selling myself short. I do polish my stories. I always do. I realise how futile it is to put out something without going through several phases of editing. It's just that this story is by far the longest short story I've written (6.7k) intended for submission. It's also one I care about more than any other. I've implemented several reader suggestions and refinements, but I feel there's still big structural changes to make. Mind you, only one of my readers made these large-scale suggestions. I could take or leave the criticism, but I'm full of doubt now and it's holding me back.

Fine. I'll write flash fiction.

 

For most of us, as we see it, writing isn’t a hobby. It’s more than just an avocation, it’s an extension of ourselves and our world. A lot of writers take offense to being likened to something like needle point, or building model planes.

 

You realise I would've probably killed myself by now if I wasn't writing or making things? I misspoke. Writing isn't just a hobby. Of course it isn't. I care about it more than I do most things. That's why I'm frustrated. If it was just a hobby, I wouldn't even be on this forum. I wouldn't have written since I was seven. Sorry if this post is a bit blunt, but I need to make it very clear I'm not blasé about writing. I wouldn't even entertain the idea of having someone think I'm not serious. I don't have much going in my life except what I create. I used the word hobby in the sense that for most of us it's a hobby until we're paid to do it. Most of us aren't professional writers. Hell, I call myself a hobbyist writer... because I am. That's why I said what I said.

I'll probably regret this post in the future, but even the slightest insinuation that I'm not serious can't go without a response.

Edit: You chose to see the word hobby as equal to model planes and needle point. I personally think the word hobby means any craft one undertakes without pay...

 

I think you're comparing apples and oranges. You want to put your writing up without a gatekeeper, self-publish, or put it on a blog, or use Wattpad, or stick it on Facebook. Try and get your paintings hung in someone's gallery and you'll find out how easy it is to get past art's gatekeepers.

 

My point was that the only form of presentation of one's writing that matters is being traditionally published. Anyone can self-publish; it doesn't really mean anything. I wish that wasn't the case. With art, it's much more versatile and independent. You simply don't need to go through a massive wait and then have your art be judged by other people. There are people who self-teach themselves to make incredible art and accrue thousands of followers, even land jobs based on their work alone. You can do everything yourself. The art speaks for itself. As a tiny example, I got close to 300 views just for posting this photographed image containing figure sketches (https://cdna.artstation.com/p/asset...6/854/large/taylor-hood-fsdfsf.jpg?1497831180). That's more than any single work of fiction I've written. You can't say writing as a hobby is good on the presentation/output/visibility front. It's just not. Yes, I write for myself and for others, but the colossal wait times, gatekeeping and general lack of response is dire. Simply put, if you want to put creative things out there and make something of yourself and enrich others and make them happy with your work, writing is the snail of the creative world.

 

Sure, but... your point's wrong. Tons of people self-publish and build followings and sell books and get readers. Quite apart from that, what's shoving something on Artstation if not self-publishing?

 

Maybe to you. I've never once wanted to be traditionally published and I don't consider it some grand accomplishment above other options. I think there is this dying perception that publishing companies are the judges of what's "the best" but they are a business like all the rest and looking for what sells more than anything.

However, I completely respect that traditional is the route for some people. Not everyone is cut out for self publishing and that's perfectly fine. Being traditionally published is impressive. The most impressive thing in professional writing? Ehhh

Although, I want to say I'm talking about genre fiction. Literary is a different ball park.

 

Does anyone take self-published books seriously where it matters though? Anyone can shove a supermarket thriller up on Amazon with a cover of a ripped airhead in a tuxedo. From my experience, the only self-published books I've seen are of that variety, really. I mean, I'm sure there are quality literary works published by serious authors. Still, I don't think Penguin or Dedalus European Classics are going to trawl Amazon for self-published talent and instantly sign the author up for some deal or other. That's my point. Honestly, although I talk about gatekeepers and whatnot, I'm always more inclined to respect authority. It's just in my nature. I would much rather be set up with a serious publication house who know what they're talking about than be self-published on Amazon. I'm not trying to knock people who do self-published, as much as it may sound that way, so here's a question. Do you not frequently encounter the scenario whereby someone says, "Wow, you're an author?" and you have to clarify, "Well, self-published." I think that shows it's not as meritorious. I'll be honest and say I don't quite understand why anyone would wish to settle for self-publication. Feel free to enlighten me.

@big soft moose
Don't get me started on Modern art.

 

@Teladan does have a point there though. You can get spotted on Artstation by somebody from a major video game art company like Blizzard and hired immediately. That happened to somebody I used to talk to when I was hanging @ Conceptart. Of course, your skills have to be TIGHT.

 

Where is that?

 

There are excellent books that get self-pubbed, and I'm pretty sure you can get spotted and contacted by a publisher if your work is up to that level.

 

Well, that was my question. I honestly wasn't sure if publishers trawl at all. This disproves what I was saying if that genuinely is the case.

By the way, my brother landed a contract working for the map-making team Inkarnate simply by posting his maps on Reddit which received thousands of views. I just mention this since you brought up Blizzard. Glenn Raine of Blizzard worked on Inkarnate.

 

Something I forgot to address... Amazon is simply not analogous to places like Youtube or Artstation or any of the popular music platforms (although I don't know enough about them). Artstation has a base of tens of thousands and the work is instantly uploaded and viewed. How much attention does your recently self-published book get the moment it's put out? Or the following month or two? I'm not trying to knock self-published authors. I'm trying to speak logically and compare these platforms. And we all know about viral Youtube videos. It's just a fact that other pursuits and crafts are more consumable. Maybe that's what I should be saying. Consumable. Easy to see. Easy to listen to. Easy to digest.

Edit: I still feel the need to clarify I'm not venerating popularity here. I'm lamenting, for lack of a better word, the fact it's difficult for writers to share their passion with others because of the nature of the craft, the medium itself.

 

This is just an old view at this point, about ten years behind. Go look at the top selling ebooks for 2021 overall. Nearly half are self published and that was success earned without the backing of a big company to help with ads/connections/marketing plans/etc. Those people are earning 7 figures and I find that more impressive than the traditionally published ones considering all the work, knowledge, and analytical skill that was required from a single person. I know a lot of authors who make 6 figures and plenty that make five figures.

The major difference between self and traditionally is traditionally has a gatekeeper keeping out the potential failures. Self publishing lets the potential failures make an attempt but then those people generally go on their way. Same result in the end.

 

The money is irrelevant, it really is. I couldn't care less about making money. I have to ask though, these popular self-published e-books from 2021--what are they about? If none of them have the following, I completely concede and you win the argument:
-Hunks with bare chests and titles like (Daddy's Home)
-Books with subtitles like "A [insert cool guy name] thriller"
-Anything remotely close to Fifty Shades of Grey
-Safe supermarket fiction for 50s mothers
-LITRPG
-Anything with bondage on the cover
-Pure YA safeness like Eragon or The Fault in our Stars

I could go on, but I don't want to get the chat to get heated. Suffice it to say, those aren't worth anything at all. I'm talking about writing that matters.

Give me the self-published equivalent of Alfred Kubin, Mervyn Peake, Bohamil Hrabal, Clark Ashton Smith, Thomas Ligotti, and I'll humbly concede. And yes, those are some of my favourite authors, but I wouldn't dare set up such a weak argument. Extend that out to any really serious author who gets in The Guardian or The New York Times or whatever you want. All in all, I've only encountered lowest common denominator nonsense when it comes to self-published stuff. Please prove me wrong.

 

Good point, but I think there's a baked-in reason for that. Videos, visual art and music all have instant appeal. They're eye-catching or ear-catching, so perfect for short attention span internet markets. And it only takes a moment to look at a picture to listen to a song.

Books take so much longer to read, and to write. They require the reader to be in a contemplative thinking mode, which is sort of against what most of the internet is all about (except in places like this).

When I'm in internet mode and I check the mail and a book I ordered has come in, I'll open the package, look at the cover, maybe scan the back cover real quick, maybe even scan the first sentence or so, but then I put it down until later when I'm winding down and ready for reading.

And I'm a person who thinks of myself as a writer! And I love to read. But I'm also amenable to the short-attention-span mindset the internet puts us all into (as well as video games, cell phones, modern movies and shows, etc). I need to switch modes before I'm ready to calm down and read, and when I do that, I'm off the internet. So books kind of run counter to internet marketing strategies, at least the kind you find on Artstation etc.

 

See my above statement about Amazon not being analogous to Artstation in terms of immediate consumption. A brand new writer who puts their self-published work on Amazon cannot be compared to a brand new artist putting their art on Artstation. Of course I'm talking about new to their respective scenes, not their crafts. If one bit of art is incredible, that could land thousands upon thousands of views and followers. What happens in the first five minutes when a new writer self-publishes their book?

 

Seeking the validation of trad publishing speaks to an absence of confidence in the writing. To go self publishing, in my take, is a bold statement that one knows ones shit.

Throughout history, writers have struggled to be accepted by publishing houses. Whether censorship, convention, discrimination, substandard product or whatever reason, writers on the outside took whatever measures that were necessary to get their voices heard. I've bought home-printed, photocopied poetry collections sold by determined writers approaching cars at traffic lights. Many of the journals that exist today started as a means of getting voices heard. Writers took all kinds of risks to reach an audience. Underground and banned. Getting your stuff out there has never been as accessible as it is today. You don't even need to leave your room.

But first you need to be confident that you know your shit.

Write. Get better. If you're engaging with trad publishing, they set the rules. Patience is obligatory. If it runs out, there's lots of options if you can be so bold.

 

Well indeed, Xoic. Everything you've said corroborates what I stated previously. Writing is far slower and much more of an investment than almost any other pursuit. I said above that it's in the very nature of the medium. That's what I'm lamenting about. It's a shame that this makes it extremely difficult for work to be seen and enjoyed. Sure, a work of fiction is "consumed" over a much longer period and one could argue that this is the major upside, but honestly sometimes I feel like it's not even worth that. I would rather have work seen and enjoyed and experienced at a much higher frequency than what writing can achieve at an entry level. Again, anyone can shove a good bit of art or music on popular platforms online. Writers? Well...

If there are any ecologists or biologists out there...

Writing = K strategists
Any other pursuit = R strategists