a scene: need help understanding

I have a scene I am writing for a story. This scene is inspired by a personal experience. As I started writing it out, I began to feel like I might not be interpreting things the way readers will, so I want to get a better sense of what people are thinking.


The events:
I went on a first date with someone years ago.We met at the restaurant, he had made the reservations. I got there early, but he lived nearby, so I phoned him to let him know. In any case, I told the waiter we had a reservation (she asked because I was there standing at the entrance and there was a line). It took him some time to reach me, because he didn't expect me to call to let him know I was early. The restaurant was busy so we were seated at the counter. I can't remember what restaurant it was, but the food was delicious. As we were waiting for our orders, possibly talking with a little flirt, a waiter serving at the counter approached us and told me in front of my date that he (my date) had been there the previous evening with a different woman. The waiter waited for a few seconds, I assume to see my reaction (or lack thereof because I was confused), and then left. My date looked at me and told me with a mix conviction and confusion "I don't know why he is saying that". He looked stunned, shocked even, but he didn't accuse the waiter and didn't get angry either. We dismissed it, and the evening went on cheerfully.


My question here is what had the motivations of the waiter been to say such a thing? He said that in front of my date, at his place of work (the restaurant), which all seemed rather unusual (and so interesting ). I didn't and don't think the waiter was honestly trying to help me--that is not the way you help someone, I think. I also always thought that there was some expectation on the part of employers from waiters not to barge into customers' lives, because of privacy. Also because even if a waiter hears something, he only knows a portion of a conversation or situation--a waiter is too busy with work to grasp all that is being said or happening.

I don't know . . . what do you think?

EDIT: I am interested in what people might imagine to have happened if they had found themselves in such a situation, not coming up with a side-story for it.

 

Was it like a first date? Or had you been seeing each other for a while? It doesn't sound like you were devastated or anything, so it seems like a 1st date situation. Nothing wrong with dating different people, even on consecutive nights, as long as you're not attached to anybody. A little weird to go to the same place, but whatever.

Did you keep seeing the guy? I only ask because if you did, it implies you didn't feel there was anything wrong with it, and I think you need to go off your instincts. You can usually tell if somebody is sleazy or whatever pretty quick, you get a sense of it. But you can also be wrong.

I'm thinking the waiter or whatever he was (bartender?) had the sense he was sleazy, or maybe they don't like each other. What kind of sense did you get when the waiter (?) said that? Did you trust him, or did it seem like he was being manipulative or resentful? You could probably get a sense from the way he acted if he seems like a prying busybody or if he honestly thought the guy was a creep and wanted to save you from him.

 

I can only think of one plausible explanation but I don't think you'll like it. How many other dates did you go on with this guy?

I'm skeptical of the story, because I doubt a waiter would behave that way and doubt even more the guests would brush it off as easily as you two did.

 

The waiter was your date's ex-boyfriend... or maybe his ex-girlfriend which would account for date not recognizing the waiter.

 

@Xoic , @Bruce Johnson , @Catriona Grace I am replying to all of your comments together below.

It was a first date, so I wasn't too concerned he had been there with another woman the night before, after all we didn't know each other much so we still didn't know whether we liked each other in the first place. We were introduced by a mutual friend (they were quite good friends, while my friendship with her--my friend--was relatively new), to whom I have expressed clearly my interest in a more serious relationship, so I doubt she would have matched me with someone who was just looking for fun. I was confident he wasn't just playing, and I didn't think it was wrong of him to go on dates with other women to find someone special while we still didn't really know each other. He was a very nice man, with lots of interesting things going on in his life. We ended up dating for a short period, but then one day we stopped messaging each other, so the "relationship" ended naturally. No resentments of any sort. We just didn't click.

The thing that confused me about the waiter was that he didn't know what I wanted at all. For all he knew I might have wanted a one-night stand or marriage, why is he being nosy? Since my date lived right around the corner, I am assuming he went there relatively often with other people. But I don't judge people based on what a "random" person tells me thinks my date is like. I don't judge people based on "revelation-moments" of this sort, although in soap operas they do work well . I judge people based on my personal interaction with them, especially because in this case I assumed the waiter had dared to interfere based on some personal motive rather than for my sake. It seemed to me most natural to assume that, or not? Would you trust your date after something like this happens? Of course, I don't want to have to work out a sidestory where not necessary, with the risk of falling into a soap opera trap of sorts.

On a side note, perhaps I live in olden times, but don't you think it is inappropriate/lacking professionalism for a waiter to take note of a customer's behavior and render it public like that? If I had been chatting and becoming friendly with the waiter, perhaps yes, but like this out of the blue . . . .

The waiter disappeared after the revelation, so later I thought he was sent by someone else in the restaurant so that my date didn't recognize him or her. Well, that was my storytelling mind who thought that, I don't know if working in a restaurants can be so "dramatic", the staff seemed too busy for that.

 

Absolutely!! But then professionalism is rapidly disappearing from the world. Employees in restaurants and stores act like spoiled children. The managers increasingly don't seem to know how to handle it or are just as bad as the employees. It's no longer a 'customer is always right' world. It's becoming a world where everybody thinks only about their own rights and empowerment and not at all about their responsibilities or the rights of other people. /rant.

My suspicion is the waiter likes to stir up drama to get a lot of attention and make himself feel special or powerful. Probably a person whose own life doesn't go well and who wants to drag others down to his level whenever possible so he can feel superior for a moment—a little dopamine hit. This is often true of gossipers and busybodies.

 

I'd still be interested in the exact words from the waiter. There's a big difference from something subtle like "So you both had such a good time last night you came back for more food?" versus "Ma'am, I just want you to know, this guy was here last night with a different girl."

I can't see any scenario where the latter would be acceptable and not get the waiter fired. And I don't see why any waiter would do it unless they had some vendetta against the guy or were ultraconservative and thought the guy was a fornicator in need of rebuke.

I still don't understand why neither of you asked to speak to the manager, or didn't just leave. I can't imagine just forgetting that like nothing happened.

The only other theory that I can think of was that this guy had some 'bail out' method he'd signal for if he just didn't want to continue the date (too boring, didn't find the date attractive, realize they'd never sleep with them, etc.) and it was a way to end the date without having to do it themselves, and they could even seem like the victim! But that doesn't make sense because you guys dated for some time after that.

 

The waiter's action was totally inappropriate and unprofessional. It really doesn't (IMHO) matter what his motive was, it was not his place to inform you that your date had been there the night before (or any other night) with a different woman.

 

@Xoic , I agree with you. I also think there is a general sense of entitlement and of making everything about oneself that has been spreading over the years. Personally, I think it is in part due to the habit that social media has made of creating sensationalism to attract attention (and so followers), even if it means causing problems to others, and turning that into something of value, of truth even. Partial is stretched to whole, too often. I am not quite sure why others don't see that.

@Bruce Johnson , the waiter came over, he looked at him (my date) and then at me, and speaking only to me (my date was still sitting next to me at the counter) he said "he was here last night with another woman." I am fairly sure those were his words. Time has past but I was seriously confused and a little shocked, enough to make me remember the events all these years and wanting to work it out into a story. I do find the whole situation rather puzzling and entertaining to speculate about (especially apt for a story) As to why we dismissed it, well I was more interested in getting to know my date, and I felt that taking that incident with the manager and cause a ruckus would have made me look bad, like a complainer, and would have also spoiled the mood of the evening which was pretty good--in fact we started dating afterwards. My date just dismissed it, I think for the same reason--we never talked about it really. Somehow I didn't feel it was necessary. I also thought my date dismissed it because there was nothing there to say, because he didn't know the waiter personally. I actually liked his chill attitude. If you were to find in my position would you think he was hiding something instead?

I really don't think this was part of a plan between my date and the waiter--my date seemed genuinely surprised at the time, plus he had been very lovely and fun the rest of the evening. And overall, it just seem a bit too dramatic for someone to really go ahead and implement such a plan. I came across negative gossip and people spreading absurd rumors (about others), but a plan of this kind seemed a little too intricate, too much trouble to be worth the effort . . . .

@SapereAude , thanks, my thought exactly

 

That really is a bizarre experience. Thank God for them, else we'd have to make stuff up. Fact is often stranger.

I'd agree with your take and @Xoic above. This waiter certainly did not have your welfare in mind and, if your date was dodgy, potentially put you in greater danger.
I find it curious that ye didn't see him for the rest of the night. I'd venture to suggest that may have been his last act as a member of staff in that establishment and he was talking neither to you nor your date but the floor manager who had just given him a bollicking for being lazy and rude to customers.
Also, I fully understand yours and your date's reaction. Nothing to set a date off worse than embarrassment and conflict.

 

@B.E. Nugent , yep! I have a bunch of puzzling/bizarre stories like this one and I am glad they happened, because they gave me lots of speculative entertainment and material for writing stories . Overall I can't complain, because I am all >> .

But I have to say that I doubt he got fired for this or any other similar behavior: in my opinion he did this because he thought he was right about something (perhaps about the world, but deep down motivated by personal reasons) that justified his action. He disappeared because I think he finished his shift, and I suspect it was a way to get away with it--he felt justified to act like this, but he knew it could have become uncomfortable if we complained about his behavior. Over the years I have seen on various occasions hired waiting staff (and other kinds of staff in other types of workplace) treating their workplace like their territory rather than a place for business. So I am prone to think that his was part of a general mentality of this place--while other people in general tended not to take action, they still did think it would have been justified if they did, so they "allowed" it to happen.

Overall, I am glad I brought this up here in this thread because as I read people's responses and I work my own thoughts more, I have a more nuanced understanding of the situation which helps my writing of the scene. Thanks to all

 

Where did this happen? In the U.S., this not only would be unprofessional, but is bad practice because waiters depend heavily on tips for their salary. Even if they were not your waiter that night, it's bad business to do anything that may sour a customer's experience, especially if this occured during the internet age.

I would have had a hard time to let this go, I probably would have at least talked to the manager and tried to get an explanation. I tend to think analytically, and to me every act happens for some reason or motivation (I don't mean in a spiritual sense). Pure irrational behavior is rare, but even then there may be some reason it occurred (drugs, mental illness, etc.).

 

Possibly a personality disorder, neurosis or complex of some kind, or a childhood coping mechanism that hardened into an adult behavior pattern. Some people get more out of feeling superior or getting a lot of attention than out of earning some cigarette money.

 

Wishing the time back, the only appropriate response was:

Me too, honey, and they're joining us later. The more the merrier. And what time do you get off?

 

I worked with a waitress once (I was the head cook) who was just a 'blurter.' She would blurt out the first thing that came into her head. And she would always get quite excited when she thought she'd 'caught' somebody out with someone they shouldn't be out with, etc. I don't think she had any motivation. She just had no brake between her head and her mouth. If she didn't say these things directly to the customer, I distinctly remember her bustling back into the kitchen area to deliver the order and saying VERY loudly, "OH, THAT'S NOT HIS WIFE, YOU KNOW." She was otherwise a good, reliable employee, and the boss/owner never fired her. Most of the time the customers didn't seem to mind. It was a small town, and they weren't necessarily keeping their liaisons a secret anyway. But still. I remember my most frequent word to her was, 'shhhhh!'

If I had been the boss, though, she would not have got off so easily. Certainly not after she had been warned about her behaviour, and persisted in it.

Perhaps your waiter was just one of those self-righteous people who thought that 'warning' a customer that the guy she was dating might be less than truthful was part of his (the waiter's) civic 'duty.'

If you were writing that up as a story, maybe show us more of that waiter's manner as he approaches the table to impart this information. Let the reader get a clue to the waiter's motivation, without having to state it yourself as a writer, or concoct some backstory.

The important thing here is the effect this announcement had on the two characters who were dating for the first time.

As it was just a first date, there was no reason he shouldn't have been there previously with another woman. If I were in your main character's shoes, I would just tell my date not to worry, that whoever he might have been there with yesterday had no bearing on today, and that he didn't owe her any explanation. For all that, your main character might confess that she, too, had been out on a date the previous night ...just not at this particular restaurant.

As you are apparently writing a fictional story based on an experience you had, you can feel free to change it. Imagine several scenarios where the waiter might be impelled to do this, choose one, and get that motivation across via showing the waiter's tone of voice, body language, etc.

 

*raises hand*

Right so, this will be my obligatory reminder for this thread that us autistic people are still a thing, okay?

I bring this up because this is all starting to sound pretty familiar and I think I should make it clear that a lot of us don't actually get ya'll "normal" people even at best of times. I myself am not even a very severe case and can actually pass for a neurotypical person most of the time, but I still sometimes feel like I'm surrounded by a bunch of goddamned aliens whose bizarre topsy-turvy cloud-coo-coo-land orange-and-blue type values make no damn sense to me.

I had to be explicitly taught - at quite an early age and in no uncertain terms - that I should sometimes lie to people, because I didn't grasp that being totally honest could hurt their feelings. In fact, I still didn't really understand why; I just understood that being completely honest made adults upset sometimes so I'd better figure out how to lie selectively, or at least learn when not to voice my honest opinion. That's a lot abstract thinking for a pre-schooler to get his head around. A lot of us don't really manage that.

And yeah, some of you might think: "That just what being a kid is like," but it never gets gets better, you see? I'm 37 years old and to this day I still worry I'll say or do something that'll count as a serious social faux pas for reasons that will forever remain utterly incomprehensible to me. Half the time, I only come across as normal because I've learned to imitate what passes for normalcy. From our perspective, you people just don't make sense.

What I'm saying is that - in the cases of Ruskaya's waitor and Jannert's waitress - it's completely possible these people genuinely, honestly didn't understand that what they did was considered socially inappropriate and were just attempting polite small-talk. They were just stating facts. Facts can't be wrong, can they? That would be an oxymoron: A fact is truth, by definition. Truth can't be "wrong," again by definition, dammit. So why is everyone getting upset about it? I don't get it.

Of course, I can't say for sure this is how these scenarios actually played out. Maybe these people really were just insensitive jerks with a sadistic streak who generally lacked an empathic response to the way their actions affect others. I admit that's entirely possible.

But if there's a silver lining about having issues like mine, it's that over time I have started to develop a certain resistance to the Fundamental Attribution Error. By which I mean, I've come to generally expect that no matter what sort if people I come across in this crazy, nonsensical world, and no matter how difficult it is to understand them, it's fair to assume they act and behave in a way that makes sense to them, under their own circumstances, even if I don't get it.

Because I've spent all my life living in a society that doesn't quite make sense. That's totally normal to me.

 

Because I've spent all my life living in a society that doesn't quite make sense. That's totally normal to me.

One needn't be autistic to feel that way.

 

I can actually see what you're getting at here, and it certainly must be difficult figuring out what neurotypical society expects. However, it's just as difficult for us who are not on the spectrum to anticipate and deal with how an autistic person sees things or will react in a given situation. No one is at fault—we ALL come wired a certain way. Neurotypicals dominate, simply because there are more of us. But we all need to understand that our way isn't the only way. I'm glad this issue is getting discussed more openly these days.

However, the waitress in question was a horrendous gossip, who was constantly poking her nose into other people's business, and she would get really excited if she discovered some nasty secret about them, and couldn't wait to blab it around. She was also often wrong in what she thought she'd discovered—as I can personally attest—and her nosing and blabbing did create difficulties for people (including me.) She came very close to getting fired a few times, but my tenderhearted boss kept her on because he knew she needed the job.

The thing about being outspoken is that anybody can make a mistake. Just because somebody is 'honest' about speaking their minds at all times does NOT mean they always have the correct information. In fact, they may actually be totally wrong.

For example, a man can be out to dinner with a woman who is not his wife for many different reasons. I have been out to dinner with male friends many times, for many different reasons—and I am a very faithful wife. My husband totally approves of me having male friends. He has female friends as well, including one he goes to his folk club with, every week. However, it would be very easy to 'assume' the wrong thing, wouldn't it?

My waitress colleague always assumed there was cheating going on, if she saw a couple out together and she knew at least one of them was married to somebody else. In fact, one elderly man used to regularly bring in his female friend for dinner, and other times he would also bring his wife ...and sometimes he brought them both together. The waitress was convinced they were a threesome, in a sexual sense—but she had absolutely no way of knowing this. But her eyes would light up like a Christmas tree every time that happened. "There they are AGAIN."

Think of the damage a person can do, if what they 'honestly' think is happening ...actually isn't. This is where a bit of discretion comes in handy. Speaking every thought out loud is not necessarily a good idea. It's always a good idea to ask yourself, 'Will somebody get hurt if I say this?' If the answer is, "I don't care— it's the truth, and I always tell the truth," then honesty becomes a vice, not a virtue.

 

Sure, sure. Let me be clear that I'm not trying to point blame here. I'm just pointing out that since neurodivergent people often don't understand the unspoken rules of neurotypical social interaction (or, for that matter, the actual concept of "unspoken rules"), unfortunate misunderstandings and miscommunication are very common. Don't be quick to attribute this sort of behavior to intentional malice, basically.

Hm. Well, like I said, I don't actually know anything about this woman so it's hard to judge. Perhaps she just enjoyed gossiping and didn't really understand that it might be harmful or disruptive to people around her? Perhaps the subject of infidelity was a psychological fixation for her, to the point where it would consistently override her impulse control? Maybe she had a weak Theory of Mind and could not - on an intuitive level - quite grasp that the feelings and values of other people where different from her own?

See, she doesn't have to be autistic, specifically, but she could still be some variant of neurodivergent. I'm reminded of a quote from the second season of Westworld that really rang true to me: "What humans define as sane is a narrow range of behaviors. Most states of consciousness are insane."

I've met plenty of people who just seemed to be wired a bit differently and clearly didn't think the way "normal" people do. But if there was a diagnosis for whatever was up with them, nobody had bothered to tell and them and quite possibly there isn't even an clinical term for their particular way of viewing the world.

It's scary to contemplate - and I realize this is starting to verge on out-right philosophy - but it's likely that a lot of people you meet every day simply don't experience the world the same way you do.

Maybe that a part of why we humans have such trouble getting along. Heck, maybe that's the only reason.

I totally understand, but also that's kinda of part of the issue. See, that sort of thinking is very obvious to me. Of course this woman - whom I know to be married - may just be out on a platonic dinner with a male friend. While it may be a case of infidelity, this is far from certain - maybe even statistically unlikely, if I'm the sort of autistic who bothers running the math on this sort of thing. (I'm not, because I suck at math, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if some of us do.)

That's why if an autistic person where to say something like: "Huh, that's not the girl you were here with last night," it may not be intended as an implication. It may just be a statement of fact which - as far as that autistic is concerned - carries no accusatory connotations at all. There are all kinds of reasons a man might go out to dinner with different women two nights in a row, and maybe this person just assumed that would be equally obvious to the girl the patron is with.

There will be times when we take a chance and trust that you to understand what we mean, but then it all just goes wrong instead. It happens. A lot.

Yeah, but... you're still doing that thing where you expect your own values to apply to those of us who just don't really understand them.

Take infidelity, for example. If I had a wife, and I found out she was sleeping with another man, I honestly don't see why I should get particularly upset about that. I mean, I don't own her. It's her body, I can't just stake a claim to her and forbid her to sleep with other men if that's what she wants. I understand it in theory, that's it a matter of trust and so on, but in practice I genuinely don't see what the big deal is.

Sure, maybe I'd confront her lover, but only to make sure he's not some predatory jerk who's likely to break her heart or something.

Would I cheat on my wife? Well, not if she's a neurotypical for whom fidelity is important. I may not perfectly understand this sentiment, but if it's important to her I'd respect it. Trust me, if nothing else we really understand what it's like to value something others don't care about.

What I'm getting at is... well, we can only relate to what hurts us. Often it's the same thing that hurts you, but not always. That's why we'll sometimes hurt you without meaning to. It's difficult, and we keep getting it wrong, but I like to think most of us are trying our best.

 

Thank you for considering what I said so carefully. Yeah, it's not easy to always get motivations right. I like what you said about maybe this is why it's so hard for everybody in the world to get along. You're correct with that one, I reckon.

I don't want to get too far off base with the original poster's intent for this thread. @ruskaya needs to establish in her own mind what it was that motivated the waiter to say that—so ruskaya can write about it. The important thing is 'what happens next.' The waiter has just (intentionally or unintentionally) dropped a potentially emotional bomb on the two customers. The story (from what I gather) is about the two customers and their developing relationship, so how this bomb affects them is what's important.

Assuming the waiter has told the truth, that the man WAS here the previous night with another woman, then how does the new relationship proceed? From a writer's point of view, that's what needs to be established, I think. (If the waiter has lied, then that MIGHT become an entirely different story ...why would the waiter lie, etc?)

Assuming that the waiter told the truth, the woman here can:

1) decide this guy is not for her, and refuse to see him again (doesn't need to be a big scene ...just a quiet decision)
2) trust the guy's explanation, if he offers one, and move on with him and build their relationship
3) accept the guy's explanation for now, but remain slightly suspicious—he might be a serial cheater
4) demand to know who the other woman was, and what his relationship with her is/was
5) explain that she doesn't care at all, that what happened yesterday with some other woman doesn't matter
6) express sympathy for his situation, and admit that she was seeing another guy a couple of nights before herself (after all, they are both seeking a lasting relationship, so it's obvious they will both have been seeing other people)
7) initiate a discussion about trust ...how it's important/not important in her view of a relationship
8) have a good laugh at the waiter ...what on EARTH was this waiter's deal?
9) both decide to speak to the manager about this waiter's conduct

And so forth. For story purposes, any of these things could happen, as well as lots of things I haven't thought of.

The waiter's motive probably isn't really the story. It just provides the inciting incident.

 

When I read the OP, I viewed the behaviour within the prism of the vicious gossips I've encountered in my time. And there have been some, people whose behaviour was rewarded by the dubious gratification of superiority. I have also known people, with and without clinical diagnosis, who maybe on the autism spectrum or, as we used to call it, eccentric, a word I've had attributed to me on occasion.

I hadn't considered an explanation beyond malice and @Fervidor makes some very good points on not jumping to conclusions.

 

wow, my post has really brought up some interesting conversation about neurodiversity and I am glad for it.

@Fervidor , I see your point of view now about being neurodivergent and the necessity to make more allowance on human intentions. I agree, we don't often consider people's intentions and motivations generously.

But remember this is a story I am writing about, so I might consider the waiter's diversity or make him a villain for the sake of the story. Overall, I don't really mind his behavior because it didn't affect me, and if I cared about his true motivations I would have asked to him/the restaurant . . . but I didn't. Although realistically speaking his behavior might have had negative consequences for others. Quite frankly, though, his timing and actions--especially waiting for a reaction after he dropped the bomb--seemed quite calculated to me, well outside the realm of being unintentionally/unwittingly inappropriate.

In my mind this is why we have certain general social rules, like respecting privacy, where you only have to think that what matters it to avoid eavesdropping and, even if you do, what matters then is to avoid reporting to others (especially when professing a moral judgement). Such general rules help most people not barge into other's lives and cause trouble to others, especially at work. This is not to say that everyone can follow such rules effortlessly, and I am guilty of being inappropriate on lots of occasions because I couldn't see how I was being inappropriate. Eventually I have learned .

Most generally, people "gossip" because that is how one makes sense of the world--we cannot move around the world without making sense of it--that is how we decide how to behave in it. Many also use gossip to affirm their moral reality. That is why people take actions knowingly causing trouble to others, because they think they are right and that what they know are facts. Maybe they are, but most likely only parts of facts that when pieced together might create a distorted version of what really happened. I have seen people in potentially-causing-trouble-if-others-were-to-find-out situations and chose to shut my mouth (I mostly do this), or confront the person openly and honestly if I chose to get involved, precisely because of this reason. Even if I thought they wouldn't be giving me a honest answer, it is only fair that I take it up to them, all in all it is their personal/professional life at stake, not mine.
But, see how many people get hooked on celebrity gossip online, for instance. How many celebrities have lost movie/commercial contracts because of silly gossip? (NOTE: I am referring to what users comment and post online, people who are not involved in the situation the gossip describes). What might seem a small action at the individual level can feed into a much larger negatively-charged thread at the collective level, with real consequences for some, in this case the celebrity.

I do think gossip is a general condition that humanity indulges in. I think it is important to take responsibility for one's intentions and what the consequences of those intentions are when they turn into actions. Again, this is not to say that everyone can do that. I don't want to diminish the importance of considering and including neurodiversity. And thanks to Fervidor for bringing that up here, I will take more into account for the possibility of neurodiversity in life.