Writing forums is fundamentally a site where we discuss writing, we post writing, we work with each other to improve our writing. It is not primarily a site for the debate of politics, religion or other such contentious subjects The debate room was intended to be a place for open minded intellectual inquiry into weighty topics that address and inform the human condition where people could show and improve their rhetorical and logical skills in the intellectual cut and thrust. Instead became a space full of bad spirited disagreement, and the same few members essentially saying 'I'm right, no you're not, I'm right' about a range of topics with both ad hominems and sea lion argument abounding. It was generating far more heat than light, with regular reports from members on both sides who seemed incapable of comprehending that their own behaviour was no better than that of the person they were reporting. In short it had become a fight club not a debate club, which is not what we are here for. Moderating it had become a drain on both moderator time and also our mental energy. So we have taken the decision to close it, and it will not return for the foreseeable future. Although it is no longer visible as a forum it has not actually been deleted and you can still follow a direct link to a discussion should you wish to mine it for research purposes. However they are all locked and you are no longer able to post with in them. If you enjoy political debate there are many other places on the internet which have that as their prime purpose for example https://debatepolitics.com/ or https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalDiscussion/ Debate type threads on religion, politics and associated subjects should not be started in the lounge or anywhere else on site. (The rules and new starter guide have been updated to reflect this). You can still post writing about heavyweight topics within the workshop or showcase but critique and feedback should focus on the writing not the topic at hand.
It always was such a temptation to drop in and read those threads, and it was such a relief to see it gone. Nice one.
I can think of at least one member who was active in there who I've almost never seen post anywhere else on the forum.
I think it's too bad that it came to this, but I can understand how irritating it must've been to moderate the place. I found it to be an interesting part of the forum to visit as I was able to learn the reasoning behind some viewpoints that are truly baffling to me. That kind of exposure can be useful and informative (and not just personally, but for writing). I'll agree that sometimes I've run into content where it's basically been, "I know everything about this subject and I am right about everything and you are wrong about everything." That's pretty annoying and not useful to anyone. It's almost like religious beliefs, impervious to scrutiny. My main concern about the closure is that in the places I frequent online that don't have something like our Debate Room (which is now all of them, few as they are), well, such conversations will pop up in the general chat spaces. And there's no debate; rather, the only views expressed are those that the dominant clique supports. Any dissent, or even questioning of the views deemed acceptable, results in pile-ons and social isolation. This isn't about me, to be clear. I don't think I have any views that could be considered "problematic" or anything. The Debate Room was a neat place where I could understand more about what's motivating those who do. I don't think this place will regress into one where there's an annoying clique that ends up policing discussions. I think .org is moderated quite well and this would be nipped in the bud if it began to emerge. I'm only a little concerned, but we'll see how it goes.
That isnt going to happen here. if debate type conversations pop up on the rest of the board they'll be deleted, and persistent offenders warned and in the final exigency banned. We're serious when we say this is a writing forum for discussing writing. Obviously the lounge is a greyer area, but we're not going to let it degenerate into debate room 2.0 To be clear this isn't going to be a return to the stormtrooper days of 12 or whatever years ago either, we're not going to ban members in good standing who inadvertently cross a line, but if someone is a persistent shit disturber they can go stir up trouble somewhere else, on the second point we used to have two cliques that conducted pile ons like you describe...most of them have now been banned, excepting a few that chipped of their own accord (and mostly their accounts have since been terminated so they can't return). Ironically the debate room seemed to encourage this behaviour since some people had wrongly got the idea that it was a fighting space where anything went.
I imagine the mods here won't look too kindly on back-seat moderation, if that's what you mean. It's already been frowned upon when it's come up before.
I know I asked to be banned from the debate room for my own sanity a few months ago. However, I am rather sad to see it go as it felt like a place where many were respectful and I could interact in thoughtful debate; even with people I disagreed with and still be friends. I do understand why it had to go. It makes sense and yes, refocusing to writing would be a good thing. P.s. I am also glad about moving away from real-life non-fictional politics on this forum. It feels like a safe haven for the most part.
The intention was always more "Oxford Union" than "taproom of the Old Bull and Bushel". Reality, however...
Yeah, but which side won? For all the productive contributions in the debate room, there were enough that left a bad taste. The bad taste lingers for longer than the benefit of healthy discussion, generally. I haven't missed it since asking to be excluded and maybe the forum will enjoy more focus on writing issues now it's gone.
I asked to be excluded from it about 4-5 years ago. I took one look and found nothing worthwhile there at all, bar political bickering. I don't know if it changed since then, but I doubt it somehow.
I asked to be excluded from it too but when I became a moderator I had to have access again and nothing had changed (or if it had only for the worse). One of the worst things about was that some members (not everyone I hasten to add) who are perfectly reasonable useful members in good standing in other parts of the site seem to undergo a transformation into rabid honey badgers as soon as they crossed the debate threshold. It was that more than anything else that convinced me that it wasn't healthy for the site.
Alhamdulillah! I think I can say without breaching confidentiality that this was a position I advocated for when I was a mod, and I know the mod team is resting easier for it. The thing that got me was the inexhaustable energy of the combatants; you'd step in to nudge things back into line that had slipped over the hedges and by the time you were done typing your post there were five more pages of increasingly heated response. My first official act on leaving the team was to ask to be banned from it, and I've never looked back (although I still wonder what the final answer on italics for thoughts was ) Good call team!
Sometimes it would pop up in searches and/or notifications on the sidebar without me noticing. Banning eliminated that problem. A lot of former mods go the same route when they step down.
and a lot of present mods often wished we could... i was banned from it by request for more or less my whole membership until i got made a moderator. There's nothing wrong with political debate per se but it belongs in a site for political debate with the rules and staff to handle it, not a site from writers. things like italics for thoughts should never have been in the debate room in the first place. if someone can't discuss writing topics politely and calmly the rules have other sanctions available for that ( I may if i can be bothered pull the writing topics out of the debate room and put them where they belong, but it won't be my first priority to do)
As I've said elsewhere... The reason I come to a writing site is because I want to interact with people as writers. If I interact with you on politics, religion or other partisan subjects like that, chances are, I'll stop speaking to half of you. So I don't want to do that. If I saw a thread title that pushes my buttons, it's going to take a lot of willpower not to click on it, and it'll ruin my enjoyment of the main focus of the site.
I would like to see the debate room stay in a much more defined mode. Limiting it to writing related debates, such as the use of italics, the Oxford comma, etc. Anything bringing up politics, religion, etc. Get an automatic delete no questions, no argument just gone.
If those are the only topics allowed, they can be discussed in the regular subforums. There'd be no need for a Debate Room in the first place - which is the situation we're in now.
That absolutely won't be happening, things like debates on the use of italics or the oxford comma can be discussed politely in the appropriate writing forums. those things should never have been debate room subjects and only wound up there because certain posters thought that debate room was a fighting space where they didn't have to be civil... you can see in certain old threads an idiot chorus going 'debate room debate room' and getting their way, when what they should have got was a thread ban or worse for not being able to conduct themselves like a grownup
