Anyone with military experience or expertise?

I would like to talk to someone with military background or knowledge of military procedures.

My character was once an eager patriot but realised, through a deadly accident in basic training, that he cannot kill anyone under any circumstance. He wants out and sees a way out through some advertisement of enlistment on a remote base near the home country coast.

First of all, would the military advertise such enlistment? Would it be possible to avoid the frontlines if the enlistment is unpopular? The designation is desolate and boring; far away from combat and would draw those who want to avoid to fighting. Maybe the military wants those that otherwise would be a hindrance to go there on their own accord?

I'm leaning towards they being in war already, but I'm not certain which stage they are in, aka, whether military service is voluntary or forced.

 

Hi Stammis,

(I don't have military background but I've read up a bit. Disclaimer off.)

Voluntary service will draw different people (who make other choices) than if everyone is required to serve. And in the background, it'd depend on culture, the state of the economy, prior military failures (aka Vietnam that traumatised the whole of the US for 30+ years), incentives to military service (i.e. enlistment bonus, the GI bill, medicals for the whole family etc etc) and such.

If everyone is required to serve and the nation is in a war already, lots of people will discover they don't want to kill other people. And even more don't want to be killed themselves. So any base away from fighting, no matter how boring, will be a prime destination! Boring will be a bonus.

If voluntary, a boring base away from it all will probably be not as interesting. I mean these people signed up to go to war and get killed and kill others eyes wide open, so I can see your character having it easy getting orders to this middle-of-nowhere base. However, I'm doubtful, if this base is so remote/boring that the military would staff it at all. Why not just close it? A war needs lots of resources, and money can be burned a lot faster where the fighting is.

Just my two cents

 

Without going into too much detail, I have some military experience.

The army would not be likely to squander men like that just to avoid sending them to war. If they were truly incompetent, that is, a threat to the success of the operation, they would be discharged, or more likely disciplined until they become competent.

That said, in relative peace time, that is, the enemy isn't knocking on the gates, people are deployed to low-risk locations for political purposes. Take the Afghanistan wars. A lot of people died there or lost limbs or their sanity, while relatively few were or have been hurt in the ongoing Kosovo operation.

 

One of the ways that people get chaptered out is by failing the PT test. Usually on purpose.

 

I like that angle, maybe the base is not close to home, but in a colony that was struck hard by the war. The main character missed out on the war but want to contribute and is sent to the colony to restore a former base. Or they are there on peacekeeping with the mission to restore and old enemy fortress to make their base.

 

Yeah, you make a good point. The war is over and the main character is a volunteer gives me lots more room to make changes.

 

Part of the plot line is that he comes to terms with being a coward and that everyone else think of themselves as cowards so that's not a bad idea. I assume that doesn't work in a full out war but in smaller scale conflicts?

 

Peacekeeping missions tend to be less bloody as the rules of engagement for peacekeeping troops tend to be quite strict. That said, it doesn't mean the enemy will be any less merciful. I have been told stories of peacekeeping troops being showered with mortar fire by enemy militia.

After any war (or just battle), there might be a fair bit of clean up, such as removing tank traps, barbed wire, covering up trenches, etc. which I assume would be postponed until the frontlines are significantly advanced from that point.

 

Yes, at that point the war would be over.

 

Then I would say you could write something like that and people would at least be able to suspend disbelief if not anything else. To be frank, you are more likely to misrepresent the military lifestyle than you are to misrepresent the kind of work they are doing - one can be studied, the other has to be lived.

 

Well, that's no problem, it's more or less a fantasy as it doesn't take place anywhere. Though there isn't magic, I heavily borrow from both ww1 and ww2 and other conflicts.

 

I was in the Army for five years as a grunt, and was airborne. In basic training, people quit by the handful during red phase, they just couldn't mentally handle the transition from going from civilian to soldier, aka government property. I witnessed a soldier pissing himself in formation during our transition before basic training. Now, there is a movie of Hacksaw Ridge, which is similar to your idea. Now, you could make your character a bit more realistic going for the most PoG MOS job, to avoid combat, but he/she still willing to shoot a gun. There is PoGs and Grunts, sadly grunts do 90% of the work, and reap 10% of the benefits.

 

In world war one, the conscientious objector were medics to mechanics. In world war two, if you tried to avoid the draft and didn't want to go to war you were put in prison. While I was in service in the mid-fifties to mid-sixties, some tried to get out by pretending to be gay.

 

History of warfare is peppered with conscientious objectors.
I will freely admit, as a young soldier, I did not understand this, nor what it meant to be a conscientious objector in the UK during wartime. It was only as I got older that I began to realise the strength of moral courage required to not serve, to say the unpopular thing and to not give into peer pressure and sacrifice your deeply held beliefs in order to conform.

Aaron & Lifeline are absolutely correct. An army of highly trained and professional ranks is infinitely more effective than an Army that has large swathes of conscripts.
In the United Kingdom, Her Majesty’s Armed Forces regular component consists of The British Army, The Royal Air Force and The Royal Navy. In addition we have the Reserve Forces. The Army Reserve is the largest of the Reserve Forces. The Army Reserve provides support to the Regular Army at home and overseas, and throughout its history almost every major operation has seen reservists operate alongside their Regular counterparts. Reservists can commit as little as 19 days a year to receive an annual bounty. They are paid for the days they serve.

In addition, all ex-Regular personnel retain a "statutory liability for service" and are liable to be recalled (under Section 52 of the Reserve Forces Act (RFA) 1996) for duty during wartime, which is known as the Regular Reserve. The Regular Reserve largely consists of ex-Regular personnel who retain a statutory liability for service and are liable to be recalled for active military duty "in case of imminent national danger or great emergency”

I hope this helps.

 

Just to add to the above. Her Majesty’s Armed Forces have been fully professional for almost 60 years now, the training structure is built and optimised to develop people who want to serve and not rush people through short term basic training to do a job for 18 months for National Service. The chances of a service person in the UK objecting to serve is really quite rare.

To quote the forces watchdog :

Life in the armed forces can have a significant effect on the outlook and attitudes of those who undertake it. Exposure to warfare can radically alter a person’s values and beliefs.

The armed forces recognise the right of serving personnel to be discharged

A member of the forces who has a conscientious objection is generally expected to raise the issue informally with his/her commanding officer. The officer’s options include rejecting the objection outright or moving the objector to a different position (such as a non-combatant role).
If the person concerned remains unsatisfied, he/she can make a formal application for discharge due to conscientious objection. After an interview which usually involves a chaplain or other third party, the commanding officer makes a recommendation to the chain of command where the decision for discharge or refusal is made. If turned down at this stage, the applicant can appeal to the Advisory Committee on Conscientious Objectors (ACCO) who hold a hearing and make a recommendation to the Defence Secretary.
Discharges due to conscientious objection are rare, with only six granted between 2001 and 2010 in the UK

 

Just thinking further: If someone got out due to conscientious objection, would it have impact on his life afterwards i.e. potential employment or treatment by his co-workers?

I can see it being heavily dependent on how the armed forces are perceived by the public. Are there civilian jobs that are bared to conscientious objectors? Public appointments?

 

Great question!

In the UK you are legally protected from discrimination by the Equality Act 2010. You're also protected from discrimination if: you're associated with someone who has a protected characteristic, for example a family member or friend. This would, in effect, render it unlawful to discriminate against someone based on their beliefs.

How they are socially perceived is a very different question.

 

Yeah, it would.

Would it be possible for someone to voluntarily enlist while being a conscientious objector? I can see there being conditions where people might want to serve while not being willing to carry arms i.e. peace keeping missions, disaster relief and such. Or would they simply go for a specialisation that was not associated with carrying arms?

By the way, I appreciate the time and effort you put in answering our questions. Thank you

 

No problem at all, I will try my best to answer.

Here in the UK, irrespective of what career path you follow in the military you will begin your career with basic military training. Regardless of your role you are considered a soldier first. Service commences with a 14 week training course known as the Common Military Syllabus which is completed by all adult recruits (age 17+) when they join the Army. The course is designed to develop the individual and team skills in a progressive manner, preparing recruits for their Initial Trade Training, where they learn the specific skills for their chosen Army trade. The RAF & Royal Navy have a similar process.
Basic training is designed to teach everything a recruit needs to know to become an effective soldier and fulfil their role within the Armed Forces – from military terminology, drill and how to wear uniform, to physical fitness, weapon handling, first aid, field craft and navigation.

We use the phrase "soldier first" to emphasise that every soldier regardless of trade should know how to defend themselves and others if it should come to it. Therefore it is not possible to join any branch of HM Forces in a strictly unarmed role.

Roles such as HR, qualified medical professionals and engineers for example would be less exposed to the risks of combat than an infantry soldier.
There are a vast amount of job roles available that support frontline combat roles. However as stated, everyone in the military will be trained to operate weapon systems.

 

Thank you all for the feedback!

How is this scenario?

An empire was split in two after a lengthy civil war where both sides did atrocities. One province is still contested after the peace, however, with people from both sides living in it. In recent years, tension has flared again and the two sides are on the brink of war. Troops are being stationed on both sides of the border. The main character (Banks) has voluntarily joined to prove himself worthy of his father's legacy who was a war hero. But during basic training an incident revealed to Banks that he could never kill. His father, unbeknownst to Banks, arranges to send him to the least dangerous mission they could find.

The mission is to recon an island and to give a report about potential fortification. However, the real reason is to send a particular officer away whose family had done atrocities during the civil war to no stoke more tension on the mainland. Everyone on this mission has volunteered to be part of the mission, as I assume there can be circumstances where people volunteer to get away from things and not necessarily because they are patriotic.

 

I met a few guys that had no place else to go to steal a line from ‘An officer and a gentleman.’
I was only seventeen when I went in and I had been living in relative’s garage or attic and on the streets for a couple of years. When I finally caught up with my dad, I still wasn’t eighteen and I needed for him to sign so I could enlist. Basically, a country’s ideology was not on my mind.